Suspension Modifications? How does this sound? - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006 Thread Starter
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Suspension Modifications? How does this sound?

I'm starting to look at suspension modifications. Let me say, my Mustang is probably not going to be on a track anytime, soon, so I'm only interested in modifications for the street. From reading a few different forums I've decided to upgrade the following:

- Rear Sway Bar
- Aftermarket Panhard Bar
- Panhard Bar Brace
- Lower Control Arms

More than likely I'll go with Steeda parts, but I haven't made up my mind. Oh, and I already have a strut tower brace (looks nice, not sure if it actually did anything).

Is the aftermarket panhard bar a must on our cars? I realize it's a good idea if I were going to lowering it. However, I live on a steep hill, so lowering is out of the question. Am I wasting my money if I purchase an aftermarket panhard bar? Most seem to be adjustable, I can't see the advantage if I'm going to keep the stock springs.

I've also seen the Steeda G-trac brace. Is it worth it or a waste of money?

How about front sway bars? I've read that this upgrade isn't really necessary.

Also, I'm looking at aluminum LCA's vs. tubular steel. Since I'm not lowering the car, I have a little extra money in my budget. Remember, this car may never see a track, would the aluminum part be worth it? It looks like a waste of money for my application.

What about replacing both the 3rd link control arm and the upper control arm? Would that be worth it on a street car?

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006
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What do you drive?

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006 Thread Starter
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Sorry about that. '06 Mustang GT. Automatic. I have a tuner and a CAI installed already. I'm also going with 3.73's and an aluminum drive shaft. I checked with Powerhouse and they say their drive shaft in no way changes pinion angle, so I'm not considering adjustable suspension components.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmustang06
I'm starting to look at suspension modifications. Let me say, my Mustang is probably not going to be on a track anytime, soon, so I'm only interested in modifications for the street. From reading a few different forums I've decided to upgrade the following:

- Rear Sway Bar
- Aftermarket Panhard Bar
- Panhard Bar Brace
- Lower Control Arms

More than likely I'll go with Steeda parts, but I haven't made up my mind. Oh, and I already have a strut tower brace (looks nice, not sure if it actually did anything).

Is the aftermarket panhard bar a must on our cars? I realize it's a good idea if I were going to lowering it. However, I live on a steep hill, so lowering is out of the question. Am I wasting my money if I purchase an aftermarket panhard bar? Most seem to be adjustable, I can't see the advantage if I'm going to keep the stock springs.

I've also seen the Steeda G-trac brace. Is it worth it or a waste of money?

How about front sway bars? I've read that this upgrade isn't really necessary.

Also, I'm looking at aluminum LCA's vs. tubular steel. Since I'm not lowering the car, I have a little extra money in my budget. Remember, this car may never see a track, would the aluminum part be worth it? It looks like a waste of money for my application.

What about replacing both the 3rd link control arm and the upper control arm? Would that be worth it on a street car?
If you won't be lowering your car, you won't need a panhard bar. You can check to see how the rear tires line up vertically in relation to the apex of the fender lip (just drop a plumb line and measure to the closest tire edge). An adjustable panhard bar will adjust the axel side to side to center the wheels under the car (usually only needed when the car is lowered).

I can't be sure, but from your description I assume that your performance driving will be straight line acceleration. Suspension is tuned differently for lateral traction/cornering than it is for straight line acceleration. Stuff like the G-trac brace, lowering springs, sway bars, etc. tend to be for lateral traction. There are spring and damper sets which are designed to allow transfer of weight to the rear on acceleration. That would help rear end traction, as would LCAs.

I am not the one to comment on suspension for straight line acceleration as I am in the smaller group on this forum who wants to get as much handling in the corners as I can.

'06 GT, manual, Satin Silver, lt. grey cloth int., IUP.
MODIFICATIONS - Goodyear F1 GS-D3s; 245/45 on 18x9, 275/40 on 18x10| Progress Technology springs & sway bars| Steeda adj. panhard bar, panhard brace, front control arm brace & bushings| strut tower brace| Tokico D-Spec dampers| CHE adj. LCAs & BMR relocation brackets |drilled & slotted front rotors| C&L intake| BamaChips SCT tune| FRPP 4.10 ring & pinion| Pypes off road H-pipes| FRPP GTA mufflers.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006
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I intend on lowering my car and would like to know what would give me the most improvement for my dollar. Every forum I have read indicates that a tower brace is a wast but looks great. This is the kind of information I need in making my decisions. Are sub frame connectors needed? Do they actually make any improvements? Lets get input.

http://bmrfabrication.com/2005Mustang.htm

2005 GT Red
Tokico D-Spec
BMR Fabrication Tubular Adjustable Panhard Bar
BMR Fabrication Upper Panhard Bar Support
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006
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You should chose suspension component based on how you want to use the car. What works well on a drag car will not work on the road course.

No matter what you're going to do, the 3rd link and lowers have to go. The durometer of the factory rubber bushings to way too soft. They induce wheel hop when new, due to comprssion and rebound, and will only get worse.

If you have any questions or need any advice, feel free to contact me directly.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkstanger
You should chose suspension component based on how you want to use the car. What works well on a drag car will not work on the road course.

No matter what you're going to do, the 3rd link and lowers have to go. The durometer of the factory rubber bushings to way too soft. They induce wheel hop when new, due to comprssion and rebound, and will only get worse.

If you have any questions or need any advice, feel free to contact me directly.

I'd also throw a new panhard rod and brace on there. The bushings on the stock PR are as soft as the stock LCAs and the stock brace is just a cheap piece of stamped steel.

1965 Mustang Coupe
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystang68/05
I intend on lowering my car and would like to know what would give me the most improvement for my dollar. Every forum I have read indicates that a tower brace is a wast but looks great. This is the kind of information I need in making my decisions. Are sub frame connectors needed? Do they actually make any improvements? Lets get input.

http://bmrfabrication.com/2005Mustang.htm
You will get a lot of opinions on this subject, so here is mine. This only applies if your goal is to improve lateral traction/cornering for performance driving in conditions such as a road course or auto cross track.

In order of priority (IMO)
1. Tires will have the most effect on handling. Where the rubber meets the road is where you get traction. Good quality tires with good tread design (hopefully you can use a summer tire) and traction compound with wheels to match the tire with to assure correct sidewall angle, will make a huge difference in handling.
2. Springs will lower the center of gravity for the car (not necessarily what you want for straight line acceleration) and change the rate at which the car leans on turns.
3. Dampers - you probably want to change them when the springs are changed. They also affect the response when the load is shifted side to side (as well as front to rear). The ones that are most effective are adjustable so that you can tune your suspension. They are more expensive, but worth it. I was able to get my car to be neutral handling, but needed to have the adjustable dampers to do it.
4. Adjustable Panhard bar may be needed after lowering the car to center the wheels under the car body. A Panhard bar brace will add stiffness to the point where the Panhard bar is attached to the frame and help lateral stability some.
5. Sway bars play a minor role in straight line acceleration, and the stock bars are pretty good for handling. However, by installing an adjustable front sway bar I was able to have much more control of the understeer and eventually eliminate it.
6. G-trac, other frame braces and poly bushings add a little more stiffness for cornering (probably, for straight line acceleration poly bushings in the LCAs are more important ). I wouldn't spend the money unless you are serious about getting the most you can in the way of lateral traction.
7. I couldn't tell any difference when I installed my strut tower brace. One had made a big difference on a Porsche I raced, so I expected to notice the difference when I put it in my Mustang.

'06 GT, manual, Satin Silver, lt. grey cloth int., IUP.
MODIFICATIONS - Goodyear F1 GS-D3s; 245/45 on 18x9, 275/40 on 18x10| Progress Technology springs & sway bars| Steeda adj. panhard bar, panhard brace, front control arm brace & bushings| strut tower brace| Tokico D-Spec dampers| CHE adj. LCAs & BMR relocation brackets |drilled & slotted front rotors| C&L intake| BamaChips SCT tune| FRPP 4.10 ring & pinion| Pypes off road H-pipes| FRPP GTA mufflers.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystang68/05
I intend on lowering my car and would like to know what would give me the most improvement for my dollar. Every forum I have read indicates that a tower brace is a wast but looks great. This is the kind of information I need in making my decisions. Are sub frame connectors needed? Do they actually make any improvements? Lets get input.

http://bmrfabrication.com/2005Mustang.htm
I like BMR stuff, best bang for the buck. I went with steeda ultra light springs when I got them on sale. I went with BMR stuff after that (Panhard adjustable, LCA) I planned on showing my car so I opted for the red BMR strut brace.....and I also got the g trac bar to balance it out. I kind of wanted to upgrade both performance and lateral performance.

As for sub frame connectors, I have heard again and again, they are not needed for our cars. The older foxes (Pre 94) had bad frame flexing problems. They got better in the SN 95's. I have read that the S197 frame in the coupe is way stiffer than the SN 95 convertibles (which was the first mustang built at the factory to be a vert, not a coupe with the roof hacked off.). I think it is a waist on the S197's Unless you are going to make a drag car with a stroker 347, in that case make a good roll cage and kill 2 birds with one stone.

You will need the BMR lowering brackets with the new BMR LCA's. That increases the angle back to stock or better (lowering the car reduces the angle on the LCA relative to the frame and rear axel.

2006 GT Premium, Black with parchment leather IUP, Shaker 500, Side, 5 speed Hurst shifter.
Mod's are:
JLT CAI with SCT X-cal 2 Tuner w/ Bama Chips 93 octane tune;Gold 10" Shelby stripes. CDC Ducktail & Classic Chin Spoiler. SS Grill with center light option, 1967 GT 350 badging. SLP Long Tube Headers w/ catted X pipe, Flowmasters American Thunder; FRPP 4.10 gears, Steeda ultra springs & UD Pulleys. BMR Fabrications Panhard Bar, LCA's w/ brackets, A arm support, Strut Tower brace.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-02-2006 Thread Starter
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Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks for the advice. I think going in a straight line is probably more of my interest. I'll never be able to handle as well in a turn without lowering the car and that's not really an option (my last performance car was a Corvette, I got tired of bottoming out and hitting road debris in my area!).

That said, if there is a weak spot in the suspension design that can be easily fixed, then I'll definitely do it. That was the primary reason for wanting a rear sway bar.

Here's what I think I'm hearing:

Lower Control Arms (LCA): Replacing the LCA's seems to be one of the first things people do. I am definitely replacing these, probably going with a non-adjustable part.

Panhard Bar Brace: Not necessary for straight line peformance, but a weak spot in the factory design. Looks like I should get one.

3rd link: It seems like I should replace this part, but I'm getting mixed information from a few different sources. If I do it, I'll be going with the non-adjustable part, since I won't be lowering. Is it really worth it on a street car?

Here's what confuses me:

Panhard bar: I don't need an adjustable bar, because I'm not lowering it and it doesn't do much for straight line performance, I suppose. Still, I do turn the car every once and a while.

Is there a noticable improvement on a street car with an aftermarket panhard bar? Or is it a waste of money if I'm not going to lower it?

Sway bars:
I was driving the car last night and would appreciate a little less understeer. Should I replace the front sway bar, the rear sway bar, or both?

FRPP makes a pretty affordable package of front and rear sway bars. The price is attractive, but for that price, there must be a catch.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwmustang06
Lots of great information in this thread. Thanks for the advice. I think going in a straight line is probably more of my interest. I'll never be able to handle as well in a turn without lowering the car and that's not really an option (my last performance car was a Corvette, I got tired of bottoming out and hitting road debris in my area!).

That said, if there is a weak spot in the suspension design that can be easily fixed, then I'll definitely do it. That was the primary reason for wanting a rear sway bar.

Here's what I think I'm hearing:

Lower Control Arms (LCA): Replacing the LCA's seems to be one of the first things people do. I am definitely replacing these, probably going with a non-adjustable part.

Panhard Bar Brace: Not necessary for straight line peformance, but a weak spot in the factory design. Looks like I should get one.

3rd link: It seems like I should replace this part, but I'm getting mixed information from a few different sources. If I do it, I'll be going with the non-adjustable part, since I won't be lowering. Is it really worth it on a street car?

Here's what confuses me:

Panhard bar: I don't need an adjustable bar, because I'm not lowering it and it doesn't do much for straight line performance, I suppose. Still, I do turn the car every once and a while.

Is there a noticable improvement on a street car with an aftermarket panhard bar? Or is it a waste of money if I'm not going to lower it?

Sway bars:
I was driving the car last night and would appreciate a little less understeer. Should I replace the front sway bar, the rear sway bar, or both?

FRPP makes a pretty affordable package of front and rear sway bars. The price is attractive, but for that price, there must be a catch.
The stock Panhard bar is strong enough for your purposes. I wouldn't spend the money on an adjustable Panhard bar unless you needed to move the rear axle laterally to center it. The stock Panhard brace is flimsy as you noted.

'06 GT, manual, Satin Silver, lt. grey cloth int., IUP.
MODIFICATIONS - Goodyear F1 GS-D3s; 245/45 on 18x9, 275/40 on 18x10| Progress Technology springs & sway bars| Steeda adj. panhard bar, panhard brace, front control arm brace & bushings| strut tower brace| Tokico D-Spec dampers| CHE adj. LCAs & BMR relocation brackets |drilled & slotted front rotors| C&L intake| BamaChips SCT tune| FRPP 4.10 ring & pinion| Pypes off road H-pipes| FRPP GTA mufflers.
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Here is what I got so far. I got lucky and found a no shipping sale on Memorial Day, and the prices are pretty good also.


1x - DSP-12 - Tokico D-Spec Wide-Range Adjustable Shocks & Struts Package - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $549.95

1x - PHR006 - BMR Fabrication Tubular Adjustable Panhard Bar - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $129.95

1x - PHR007S - BMR Fabrication Upper Panhard Bar Support - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $99.95

1x - 35101.140 - Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs 05-07 Mustang GT - Options: = $224.95


UPS Ground $0.00
No discounts applied.
Taxes $0.00
-------------------
Order total $1004.80

[url]http://www.stangsuspension.com

2005 GT Red
Tokico D-Spec
BMR Fabrication Tubular Adjustable Panhard Bar
BMR Fabrication Upper Panhard Bar Support
Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mystang68/05
Here is what I got so far. I got lucky and found a no shipping sale on Memorial Day, and the prices are pretty good also.


1x - DSP-12 - Tokico D-Spec Wide-Range Adjustable Shocks & Struts Package - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $549.95

1x - PHR006 - BMR Fabrication Tubular Adjustable Panhard Bar - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $129.95

1x - PHR007S - BMR Fabrication Upper Panhard Bar Support - For 05-07 Mustangs - Options: = $99.95

1x - 35101.140 - Eibach Pro-Kit Lowering Springs 05-07 Mustang GT - Options: = $224.95


UPS Ground $0.00
No discounts applied.
Taxes $0.00
-------------------
Order total $1004.80

[url]http://www.stangsuspension.com
Good start... You'll definitely need an adjustable 3rd link to ensure proper pinion angle since you're lowering the car. May want to look at adjustable LCAs and possibly even LCA relocation brackets.

1965 Mustang Coupe
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