5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana W View Post
You'll have to cut your strut towers out of the S197 to squeeze a Coyote in there, won't you.
The Coyote 5.0 will fit between the strut towers of the '05-'09 S197 but it's pretty tight. I believe you can use the stock AC compressor but you'd need a custom mounting bracket, and you'd probably need to convert to the '11-14 EPAS instead of hydraulic PAS.
The vintage fastbacks have a narrower engine bay and the Coyote would only fit by eliminating the strut towers altogether and going with a custom front suspension.
Fitting it into an SN95 isn't as bad, but it's still extremely tight and you'd probably still need to recess the strut towers to gain some clearance.
At the end of the day, you could avoid all of those headaches altogether by simply swapping in a 302ci 3V stroker.

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Yeah, that's why I added the LMR Link stuff past that part. Although, getting rid of the struts and going to double wishbones is not a bad thing, just prohibitively expensive.



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I can relate to the issue the OP had.

A year or so back I do what I always do.
Shameless test drive the new Mustang.
I did it in 2012, and last year for the S550.

Both times, even more in the IRS 2015 it felt very underwhelming.

I'm not knocking the 5.0, they are fast as all get out.
But it didn't "FEEL" right.

The 2012 felt (to me) like a Caddy. So smooth and soft. Speedo doesn't lie, it was going very fast.
The 2016 felt even softer.
Then I looked down 120.
The 3v always "feels" like I'm pulling Gs. Then you look down, oh...80.

But that was my take from my test drive.
It revs smooth, pulls nicely.
But didn't feel like it pulled "hard"

All three cars (mine, and the two testers) were manual.

I can't say I'm against the 5.0.
But I can say I'm against the IRS, 200lbs of gadgets, and have yet to see a factory wheel I liked.
But I'm looking around for a nicely priced wrecked 11-14.

I imagine a tune and a few tweaks like gears or something would make that engine feel like I think it should.
But until then, I'm quite content with my slower "bat out of hell" modded 4.6.

Not like I can even wind my 300 or so RWHP 4.6 out legally. Much less the big deep breathing 5.0.


My luck however. Is by time I get a 5.0 powerplant. They'll drop it just like they did us 4.6 guys.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt95 View Post
The Coyote 5.0 will fit between the strut towers of the '05-'09 S197 but it's pretty tight. I believe you can use the stock AC compressor but you'd need a custom mounting bracket, and you'd probably need to convert to the '11-14 EPAS instead of hydraulic PAS.
The vintage fastbacks have a narrower engine bay and the Coyote would only fit by eliminating the strut towers altogether and going with a custom front suspension.
Fitting it into an SN95 isn't as bad, but it's still extremely tight and you'd probably still need to recess the strut towers to gain some clearance.
At the end of the day, you could avoid all of those headaches altogether by simply swapping in a 302ci 3V stroker.
Got to love how the Mags and speed shops make these swaps look simple.

99% of the time, they will neglect those little details.

We shoved the 5.0 4v in our SN95.
*didn't mention ALL of the fabrication*

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This thing is amazing when you let it rev above 4k rpm. I dont think soulless is a fair assessment.

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post #21 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-08-2016 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fourdegrees11 View Post
This thing is amazing when you let it rev above 4k rpm. I dont think soulless is a fair assessment.
That's fair, but below 3500K it is so quiet. With the way I drive I'd like to hear the "music" at lower RPM.

I've since read other threads and am beginning to appreciate how well regarded the 4.6 is soundwise. I've seen many coyote guys admit that they preferred the 4.6 sound.

I know I'm in the minority, but I probably value the sound as much as actual acceleration given the fact that you can't fully appreciate modern muscle/pony cars on the street.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastStang14 View Post
I'm not knocking the 5.0, they are fast as all get out.
But it didn't "FEEL" right.

The 2012 felt (to me) like a Caddy. So smooth and soft. Speedo doesn't lie, it was going very fast.
The 2016 felt even softer.
Then I looked down 120.
The 3v always "feels" like I'm pulling Gs. Then you look down, oh...80.
Yeah, and therein lies the problem with the newer models; you can only have fun in them if you drive at insane speeds and risk getting multiple speeding tickets or jail time.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerCountry View Post
This is a question for people that know more about cars than me.

I have an 2009 gt and love it. I've driven a 2014 GT and a 2015 GT and both times I was left underwhelmed.

I can't quite pit my finger on it. My 2009 screams when I get on it. The coyote is faster but seems soulless. Could it be the power band, the transmission, the sound of it. It just seems so controlled. I'm probably biased, but I want to love the 5.0.

What do you all think it might be? Does anyone know what I mean?
I know the feeling you are talking about, I had a 1983 Capri RS it felt way faster than my 08 or the new 5.0 as for as pushing you back in your seat, can't explain why a 15 second 1/4 mile car feels so much faster, does anyone have an answer? Seems like this thread got off the track.

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Maybe we need to look at the power curves. Maybe 4.6 had more under the curve at lower RPM's?

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Maybe we need to look at the power curves. Maybe 4.6 had more under the curve at lower RPM's?
Here's your answer.
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I drove several 5.0s when i was looking to buy a new mustang and i think i discovered a few of the reasons why people either felt underwhelmed, or that the car was souless, or wasnt as impressive as they had hoped.

I test drove the following vehicles:
2013 Green GT Automatic
2013 Green v6 Automatic
2012 Red and White GT Automatic
2014 Silver GT Automatic

I prefer automatics due to a past wrist injury to my right hand, tho coincidentally i bought a manual because i simply couldnt walk away from the deal i got.

Anyway, car 1 had good takeoff, but seemed to not top out, then i realized the sales guy had slipped the shifter to 2, thus limiting my speed. I pushed it up to D and he pulled it back to 2 and said "we need to leave this here". I replied, "then i need to leave this here with you", and we went back to the dealership and i left.

Car 2 was as to be expected, the sales guy spewed numbers from the brochure about power, but i think my 96 GT could have roasted it off the line, just by the feeling of it.

Car 3 was either a little different from Car 1, or i missed on noticing something on the shifter, the Sport Setting. Turned that on and told the sales guy i wasnt buying without testing, this sales guy aparently wasnt a puss like the other one, and just held on. WOW what a difference that little setting makes. 95 by the bottom of the short onramp, and before i even realized it we had passed 5 exits. Hammering into the gas at any speed it pulled like a rocket no matter where the RPM was. Completely different experience.

Car 4 was a repeat pretty much of Car 3 but this one felt a little lighter on steering which was nice. With the sport mode on, it was like driving Car 3, with upgrading steering.

Car 1 just wasnt like the others, i dont recall it having the sport option on the shifter, and no matter what i did, with the shifter where it was it would never come out of 2nd, so driving back to the dealership doing like 50 on the surface street at 4000 RPM as it refused to go to third, and the sales jerk made me leave the shifter alone.

I ended up getting a deal on a 2007 GT Deluxe, with a full shelby style paintjob and lots of extras and upgrades for less than half the cost of a 2011+ so i took that one and ive loved it ever since, a manual with 3.55 gears, aluminum driveshaft, and 255/50/R17s Takeoff is awsome.

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It's funny how when the 5.0 vs 4.6 argument comes up we all have to defend our 4.6. Sorry, but the 5.0 is better engine, Ford wouldn't be using it instead of the 4.6 if it weren't. The 5.0 has the advantage in about everything except for sound, even then sound is preference.... But something is wrong with your ears if you think the 5.0 sounds better.... Just saying.

If you like the 05-09 body and don't mind being a little slower, it seem that the 4.6 is perfect for you. If you like the 05-09 body but just want moar power, put a blower on it and rape(i can say that right?) 5.0s. If you can't discipline yourself to save $5k for a supercharger but are always able to make the car payments on time, get a 5.0. If you want a 5.0 because you're human and feel like the 4.6 is now the red-headed stepchild, then get a 5.0. If you want power without modding, then get a 5.0 or a gt500. If you want a refined mustang, get a 5.0. If you get tired of people asking if it's a 5.0, then get a 5.0, because even with 4.6L emblems they still ask, trust me I know.

Just one man's opinion.


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Sport Setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterX View Post
Car 3 was either a little different from Car 1, or i missed on noticing something on the shifter, the Sport Setting. WOW what a difference that little setting makes. 95 by the bottom of the short onramp, and before i even realized it we had passed 5 exits. Hammering into the gas at any speed it pulled like a rocket no matter where the RPM was. Completely different experience.
Yes, the Coyote V-8 works nicely with the six-speed 6R80E Automatic. This is a quote I saved from off the internet (I do not remember where from) of someone describing the "Sport Setting" on the transmission:

"This transmission really gives the car two distinct personalities and the distinction between the two is fantastic in my opinion. In Normal/Drive the car is quiet, comfortable, easily to putt around town in, and handles highway driving with ease. It provides decent gas mileage on longer cruises and again is very reserved. However once you shift it down in to "S" and use the Sport mode, the car comes alive like some sort of snarling monster. The car growls at you as you take the corners, or cruise through different speeds on back country roads. It "barks" at you when you slow down from 60 - 0 at a red light as the engine braking engages, almost as if the car is upset with you for stopping and always tries to keep the revs right near the sweet spot for optimum throttle response.”

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConfederateJoe View Post
It's funny how when the 5.0 vs 4.6 argument comes up we all have to defend our 4.6. Sorry, but the 5.0 is better engine, Ford wouldn't be using it instead of the 4.6 if it weren't.
No doubt about it, the Coyote 5.0 is in a different league.
While a bolt-ons 4.6 is a very good motor and can match a pushrod 5.0 SBF with H/C/I, a Coyote 5.0 is a great motor right out of the box and becomes absolutely mind-blowing with some bolt-ons.
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H/c/i ???

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Originally Posted by Bullitt95 View Post
While a bolt-ons 4.6 is a very good motor and can match a pushrod 5.0 SBF with H/C/I.
I had to look up what "H/C/I" meant.

H/C/I = Heads/Cam/Intake.


"A thing of beauty is a joy forever; its loveliness increases; it will never pass into nothingness" – John Keats.

Where Mustangs Began: 1963 Ford Falcon Futura Hardtop with a 164 hp Challenger 260 V-8 and a Ford-O-Matic two-speed automatic transmission. "The Wonder Falcon".
2016 Ford Mustang GT Fastback with a 435 hp Coyote 5.0 L V-8 and a 6R80E six-speed automatic transmission. "Race Red".
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