5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016 Thread Starter
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5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel

This is a question for people that know more about cars than me.

I have an 2009 gt and love it. I've driven a 2014 GT and a 2015 GT and both times I was left underwhelmed.

I can't quite pit my finger on it. My 2009 screams when I get on it. The coyote is faster but seems soulless. Could it be the power band, the transmission, the sound of it. It just seems so controlled. I'm probably biased, but I want to love the 5.0.

What do you all think it might be? Does anyone know what I mean?

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Did you drive a stick or automatic? Never driven any Mustang with an automatic but adaptive shifting and shift programming could make the car feel "tamer"

The 10-up cars supposedly have quieter interiors than the 05-09s and I think the factory exhaust on the 05-09s sounds far better than the exhaust on the 11-14s.

With the right exhaust the 5.0 sounds fantastic.

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post #3 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016 Thread Starter
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Both my 2009 and the 2014 were automatic.

What is adaptive shifting? I'm not familiar with that.
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Idk...my brothers 13 5.0 screams. It's so fast. It pulls and pulls. Of course I'm comparing to my 2V but I've driven some decent cars and the coyote is one of my favorites.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerCountry View Post
This is a question for people that know more about cars than me. I have an 2009 gt and love it. What do you all think it might be? Does anyone know what I mean?
I think that you have answered your own question. It is called LOVE.

It is just like the guys who love their 289s so much that the 302 never seemed to hold a candle to it.

5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel-ford-289-v8-2.jpg

Or the guys that still love their flathead V-8's even though they were replaced by overhead valves sixty something years ago.

5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel-ford100_13.jpg

Drive what gives you joy.

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Where Mustangs Began: 1963 Ford Falcon Futura Hardtop with a 164 hp Challenger 260 V-8 and a Ford-O-Matic two-speed automatic transmission. "The Wonder Falcon".
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post #6 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016 Thread Starter
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You've got a good point there. I'm just trying to figure out what it is that's different. It's kind of a shame because I know I'm not going to keep my 2009 forever and I'd like to be interested in the latest and greatest in Mustangs.
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Both my 2009 and the 2014 were automatic.

What is adaptive shifting? I'm not familiar with that.
Well there is your problem. The auto coyote's are just terrible in stock form and really wake up with a tune on them not to mention the exhaust is way whisper quiet for my tastes.


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The latest and greatest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerCountry View Post
I'm just trying to figure out what it is that's different. I'd like to be interested in the latest and greatest in Mustangs.
Take a look at this article:
2011 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote Engine
"For The First Time Ever, The Mustang Gets Its Own V-8-And We Get The Inside Story On Its Birth"
See: https://www.circsource.com/store/Sub...rceCode=I9ABNR

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerCountry View Post
It's kind of a shame because I know I'm not going to keep my 2009 forever.
You could. I drive a 1963 Ford to and from work everyday and enjoy every trip because I LOVE it.

5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel-260-v8-advertisement.jpg

But ..... I also have a 2016 Mustang GT and when I fire that car up it seems like the heavens open up.
my89foxbody likes this.

"A thing of beauty is a joy forever; its loveliness increases; it will never pass into nothingness" – John Keats.

Where Mustangs Began: 1963 Ford Falcon Futura Hardtop with a 164 hp Challenger 260 V-8 and a Ford-O-Matic two-speed automatic transmission. "The Wonder Falcon".
2016 Ford Mustang GT Fastback with a 435 hp Coyote 5.0 L V-8 and a 6R80E six-speed automatic transmission. "Race Red".
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post #9 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016 Thread Starter
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^^ Interesting. So you think the auto coyotes suck but not the auto 4.6?
Yes, it is very quiet. Have you gotten yours to your liking soundwise? It's strange that they'd make the stock exhaust quiter engine to engine.
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Interesting. So you think the auto coyotes suck but not the auto 4.6?
Yes, it is very quiet. Have you gotten yours to your liking soundwise? It's strange that they'd make the stock exhaust quiter engine to engine.
I never said that the automatic Coyotes suck. I have an automatic and think that it is glorious. It is instantly responsive, offers a choice of sport or comfort modes, and has an overdrive and a over-overdrive gear. It has torque converter lock up in all six gears and is a fantastic transmission.

The stock exhaust sounds good and I have no desire whatsoever to make it louder.

I have a base GT with the only option being the automatic transmission and in my opinion the car is magnificent as is and needs no other options or modifications,

With that being said, I also LOVE the two-speed Ford-O-Matic transmission in my 1963 Ford. It only shifts one time, but it drives perfectly well.

"A thing of beauty is a joy forever; its loveliness increases; it will never pass into nothingness" – John Keats.

Where Mustangs Began: 1963 Ford Falcon Futura Hardtop with a 164 hp Challenger 260 V-8 and a Ford-O-Matic two-speed automatic transmission. "The Wonder Falcon".
2016 Ford Mustang GT Fastback with a 435 hp Coyote 5.0 L V-8 and a 6R80E six-speed automatic transmission. "Race Red".
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post #11 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016 Thread Starter
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Sorry, that was directed at Ford 20 who said he thought auto coyotes were terrible.
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Sorry, that was directed at Ford 20 who said he thought auto coyotes were terrible.
People who like manual transmissions say every automatic transmission is terrible. In my opinion, automatic transmissions have become increasingly advanced while manual transmissions are still ... manual transmissions. With a manual transmission you have to physically push the gear into place or nothing happens. I have had a car and a truck with manual transmissions in the past. I know how to drive a manual transmission. I personally get a kick out of the car shifting automatically and me not having to do it manually.

5.0 coyote vs 4.6 engine feel-6r80-transmission.jpg

Transmission: The 6-Speed SelectShift® 6R80E Automatic with grade assist ($1,195) is manufactured at the Livonia, Michigan transmission plant by UAW Local 182. The transmission weighs 215 lbs, 24 lbs more than the manual transmission, and has a torque capacity of 650 lb-ft, and has its own oil-to-air cooler. The GT automatic uses a redesigned torque converter (Part No. 7902) that is five pounds lighter than the 2014 equivalent, has a torque multiplication factor of 1.5, and a 2400 – 2700 rpm stall speed. The transmission is electronically controlled with torque converter lockup capability in all six gears. The transmission is “Filled for Life” with 12.1 quarts of low viscosity synthetic Mercon LV fluid. This transmission dip stick is located underneath the car on the transmission itself on the passenger side. The 6R80’s gear ratios, span and shift schedule have been optimized for better off-the-line performance and improved fuel economy. The double-overdrive gear also provides better fuel economy. The transmission has a low 1st gear and two overdrive gears, the highest of which is 0.69. The Drive (D) position provides the best fuel economy and a balanced combination of comfort and handling. Sport (S) increases throttle response selects gears more quickly and at higher engine speeds to provide additional lower gear operation, faster acceleration, and increased engine braking. The steering wheel is mounted with paddle shifters to allow the driver full control of shifts. A new active rev-matching feature makes downshifts more efficient, smoother and quicker.

As a point of trivia: The Ford 6R80E is based on the German ZF 6HP26 transmission and it is built by Ford under license to ZF Friedrichshafen. The ZF 6HP26 was introduced in the 2000 BMW X3 and was the first six-speed automatic transmission in a production passenger car. The ZF 6HP26 is currently installed in the Hyundai Genesis Coupe.

"A thing of beauty is a joy forever; its loveliness increases; it will never pass into nothingness" – John Keats.

Where Mustangs Began: 1963 Ford Falcon Futura Hardtop with a 164 hp Challenger 260 V-8 and a Ford-O-Matic two-speed automatic transmission. "The Wonder Falcon".
2016 Ford Mustang GT Fastback with a 435 hp Coyote 5.0 L V-8 and a 6R80E six-speed automatic transmission. "Race Red".

Last edited by ew1usnr; 08-07-2016 at 10:05 AM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelerCountry View Post
This is a question for people that know more about cars than me.

I have an 2009 gt and love it. I've driven a 2014 GT and a 2015 GT and both times I was left underwhelmed.

I can't quite pit my finger on it. My 2009 screams when I get on it. The coyote is faster but seems soulless. Could it be the power band, the transmission, the sound of it. It just seems so controlled. I'm probably biased, but I want to love the 5.0.
The 4.6 3V has the same firing order as the SBF Windsor engine and, as a result, sounds like an old school American muscle car.
The Coyote 5.0 has a different firing order and sounds like some of the modern European V8 muscle cars.
Each engine has different attributes but the Coyote 5.0 is the more popular engine swap into restomod vintage fastbacks simply because it comes out of the box with 400+hp and a 7000rpm redline.
The 4.6 3V is still a solid soulful engine that loves to sing its heart out, but 300+hp and a 6500rpm redline doesn't cut the mustard anymore. If you must have that retro-styled '05-'09 body style you may not care anyway. Just wait for the opportunity to buy a wrecked '11-'14 GT and grab all the juicy bits!


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I took back my original post because I was completely wrong. Good thing I don't do internal engine work.

The biggest difference in the sound is caused by the one large exhaust valve in the 4.6 as opposed to two small diameter exhaust valves in the 5.0.


130 total pounds of Pitbull ruled by 8 pounds of cat.

Last edited by Dana W; 08-07-2016 at 10:50 AM. Reason: whole post was bassackwards wrong.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt95 View Post
The 4.6 3V has the same firing order as the SBF Windsor engine and, as a result, sounds like an old school American muscle car.
The Coyote 5.0 has a different firing order and sounds like some of the modern European V8 muscle cars.
Each engine has different attributes but the Coyote 5.0 is the more popular engine swap into restomod vintage fastbacks simply because it comes out of the box with 400+hp and a 7000rpm redline.
The 4.6 3V is still a solid soulful engine that loves to sing its heart out, but 300+hp and a 6500rpm redline doesn't cut the mustard anymore. If you must have that retro-styled '05-'09 body style you may not care anyway. Just wait for the opportunity to buy a wrecked '11-'14 GT and grab all the juicy bits!
You'll have to cut your strut towers out of the S197 to squeeze a Coyote in there, won't you. Of course there are already a few running around out there like that. One I saw even has a (Arggghhh) '70's Camaro K member and double wishbone front end.

However, LMR did it to a SN95 Cobra, but it was a REAL tight fit.

I guess you can get the 5.0 in between the towers of a S197 if one fits in a SN95. At least you will have to throw away the A/C and buy a Real small and Real expensive power steering rig.



130 total pounds of Pitbull ruled by 8 pounds of cat.
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