Rear lower control arms! - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Actually, those 245/45's are being stretched half an inch above max recommended. While I don't have much problem with running half an inch out of spec on the too-wide-wheel end, I wonder if that makes the tires more apt to follow road contours. Try to recall if the road had 'truck ruts' or similar out-of-flatness where you were fishtailing.

At this point, with traction problems but no hop, just relo brackets could help by increasing the anti-squat % (plants rear tires more quickly). If you can get your existing rear LCAs to fit up to somebody's relo brackets, try just that for starters. Not even LCAs yet.


Norm


'08 GT coupe, 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost stock height
'19 WRX, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 01-10-2017 at 11:17 AM. Reason: cleaned up wording/sentence fragment
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMartinez View Post
Correct. But I have 19x9.5 SVE wheels on my stang.
I missed that in your signature. Then yes your tires are very much on the small side. I'd go with 275/40. The extra sidewall will help you more with forward grip than a 285/35 will, all else equal. Make sure you get a good tire though. Going wider with MT Street Comps or Nitto Invos won't help you any. Continental DW or Nitto 555 G2 at a minimum IMO.

You can also try out the relocation brackets like Norm said, they should help a bit but the ultimate problem is not enough tire.

Do you have an adjustable panhard bar? I didn't see that in your list and if you have lowering springs it's always good to fix your axle position. Not having your axle centered certainly wouldn't help your ability to keep the car straight.

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-10-2017 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Actually, those 245/45's are being stretched half an inch above max recommended. While I don't have much problem with running half an inch out of spec on the too-wide-wheel end, I wonder if that makes the tires more apt to follow road contours. Try to recall if the road had 'truck ruts' or similar out-of-flatness where you were fishtailing.

At this point, with traction problems but no hop, just relo brackets could help by increasing the anti-squat % (plants rear tires more quickly). If you can get your existing rear LCAs to fit up to somebody's relo brackets, try just that for starters. Not even LCAs yet.


Norm
Yes I know the tires are stretched a bit, I just wanted to get the new wheels on while I saved for new tires and the fact that the tires I have are really great shape, Continental extreme all seasons. I know now these aren't the best for hook up.

This may sound funny but I noticed the tires breaking loose more easily under hard acceleration when I had the new wheels mounted. Could this be because of the 1/2" stretch?



2011 GT/ California Special, Silver, Auto, 3:15's, Airaid race CAI, Hypertech tune, Roush axlebacks and lowering springs, Boss 302 splitter, SR front and rear swaybars, 19x9.5 SVE gloss black Drift wheels,BMR lower control arms, Brembo big brakes up front,Stainless steel brake lines, JMS Pedalmax.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMartinez View Post
This may sound funny but I noticed the tires breaking loose more easily under hard acceleration when I had the new wheels mounted. Could this be because of the 1/2" stretch?
I'm sure that the mild stretch has quite a bit to do with that. When the sidewalls are 'straightened up' more, vertical stiffness goes up because the 'bulge' that provides flexibility and compliance gets smaller and can't provide as much. The ride gets stiffer, and tiny bumps cause greater variations in tire grip.

A picture might help. It isn't 'perfect', but it's close enough for purposes such as this.




Note that the section width still increases, just not as fast as the wheel width . . . it's more like 40% as fast, or about 10mm wider at the section for one full inch of rim width increase. Your slightly stretched 245/45-19 looks about what a 260/42-19 would if any tire mfr actually made such a size and made it very close to its nominal dimensions.



Norm
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'08 GT coupe, 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost stock height
'19 WRX, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkMartinez View Post
For starters I want to buy the BMR fixed LCA's. The ones that sell for $139.00. They are a little beefier than the ones they sell for $89.00. I'll use the stock mount and later get the UCA from BMR. The lowers I can install myself but the upper does look a bit tougher. Do you recommend a fixed or adjustable upper? The drop in the rear of my stang is only 1", hardly noticeable, I have the Roush springs in the rear.
I bought the $89 LCAs; look and feel pretty tough and have great review, but I haven't driven my car since install.

As far as for the UCA, you want to go adjustable if you are lowered to adjust for proper pinion angle; I went with a fixed arm because I plan on never lowering my car. If you are going with a BMR UCA, I strongly recommend buying their bracket because:

- using a BMR UCA with the OEM bracket is known to cause an annoying popping noise
- makes installation a lot easier. It was easy for a buddy and me to torque the arm-to-mount pivot bolt to 200ft/lbs on the garage floor; I don't think it would have been possible on the car.
- it is one heavy duty piece that des not compare to the OEM stamped part.

I didn't think the UCA install was that bad; I did it all with hand tools plus help from a friend and a 24" breaker bar to do the bolt under the rear seat and arm-to-bracket. Just be sure to buy the right parts the first time so you don't have to do it again.


'14 Grabber Blue GT - Base 300A, Track Pack, Recaro seats - Mods: SCT X4, BBK long tubes and X-pipe, Roush axlebacks, MGW shifter, BMR LCAs and UCA w/ mount
'93 Reef Blue LX 5.0 - 5-speed, black interior, factory A/C delete - GT40P Top End, 5-Lug/4-Wheel Disc - SOLD
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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I'm sure that the mild stretch has quite a bit to do with that. When the sidewalls are 'straightened up' more, vertical stiffness goes up because the 'bulge' that provides flexibility and compliance gets smaller and can't provide as much. The ride gets stiffer, and tiny bumps cause greater variations in tire grip.

A picture might help. It isn't 'perfect', but it's close enough for purposes such as this.




Note that the section width still increases, just not as fast as the wheel width . . . it's more like 40% as fast, or about 10mm wider at the section for one full inch of rim width increase. Your slightly stretched 245/45-19 looks about what a 260/42-19 would if any tire mfr actually made such a size and made it very close to its nominal dimensions.



Norm
Very cool, thanks for the diagrams. A lesson learned.



2011 GT/ California Special, Silver, Auto, 3:15's, Airaid race CAI, Hypertech tune, Roush axlebacks and lowering springs, Boss 302 splitter, SR front and rear swaybars, 19x9.5 SVE gloss black Drift wheels,BMR lower control arms, Brembo big brakes up front,Stainless steel brake lines, JMS Pedalmax.
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 01-11-2017 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrbrBlu View Post
I bought the $89 LCAs; look and feel pretty tough and have great review, but I haven't driven my car since install.

As far as for the UCA, you want to go adjustable if you are lowered to adjust for proper pinion angle; I went with a fixed arm because I plan on never lowering my car. If you are going with a BMR UCA, I strongly recommend buying their bracket because:

- using a BMR UCA with the OEM bracket is known to cause an annoying popping noise
- makes installation a lot easier. It was easy for a buddy and me to torque the arm-to-mount pivot bolt to 200ft/lbs on the garage floor; I don't think it would have been possible on the car.
- it is one heavy duty piece that des not compare to the OEM stamped part.

I didn't think the UCA install was that bad; I did it all with hand tools plus help from a friend and a 24" breaker bar to do the bolt under the rear seat and arm-to-bracket. Just be sure to buy the right parts the first time so you don't have to do it again.
Thanks for all the good advice, First step will be LCA's and proper size tires!



2011 GT/ California Special, Silver, Auto, 3:15's, Airaid race CAI, Hypertech tune, Roush axlebacks and lowering springs, Boss 302 splitter, SR front and rear swaybars, 19x9.5 SVE gloss black Drift wheels,BMR lower control arms, Brembo big brakes up front,Stainless steel brake lines, JMS Pedalmax.
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Don't forget that Norm said to try relocation brackets first (after tires) with your stock LCA's. Personally I have been very satisfied with BMR's relocation brackets which will work with all their other aftermarket rear suspension components.

But be aware that with relocation brackets if not lowered I would try 1 hole down from stock. And be aware that you may want to consider having the axle tubes welded so they don't twist and displace your rear end significantly to the point the thrust is way off and damage your rear fenders. Special welding procedures required with the dissimilar materials to avoid damage. It can be done without removing rear end/axle assemblies.
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2013 GT, Track Pack, Recaros, Kooks Axlebacks, Airaid CAI, BMR Rear Adj. LCAs, BMR Relocation Brackets, JLT Oil Separator(s), Barton 2 Post Shifter Bracket, Steeda Motor Mounts, Barton Shifter, JHR Clutch line, BMR adj. UCA and Mount, Kooks 1 3/4 headers/catted H, DSS Al Shaft, BMR Loop, Vogtland Sport Springs front/BMR rear, Strange Adj. Struts/Shocks, Extended ball joints, Steeda Bumpsteer Kit, Whiteline Tranny Mount Bushing, Borla Overaxles, BMR Watts, Vorshlag 3" Ducts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDmustang13 View Post
consider having the axle tubes welded so they don't twist and displace your rear end significantly to the point the thrust is way off and damage your rear fenders. Special welding procedures required with the dissimilar materials to avoid damage. It can be done without removing rear end/axle assemblies.
Very good advice, particularly with LCA relo brackets since they apply greater torsion to the axle tubes to diff housing joints than the shorter OE LCA brackets can.


Should make it 'memo to self' . . .


Norm

'08 GT coupe, 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost stock height
'19 WRX, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)
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So you took off the stock 2 pc. driveshaft, installed a one piece, and then put the stock 2 pc. back on?
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So you took off the stock 2 pc. driveshaft, installed a one piece, and then put the stock 2 pc. back on?
I believe your response was to JediDave. I did the same thing but because I ran the shaft out of tolerance and messed up the CV joint I believe. I am finally going to send it back to get fixed this weekend. Then I may or may not put it back in. Pain in the butt on ramps and jack stands to get it torqued back in with a long torque wrench and having to get in and out of the car to rotate the shaft. Maybe I will just pay the tech at the dealer if I have the extra money. Oops threadjack.

2013 GT, Track Pack, Recaros, Kooks Axlebacks, Airaid CAI, BMR Rear Adj. LCAs, BMR Relocation Brackets, JLT Oil Separator(s), Barton 2 Post Shifter Bracket, Steeda Motor Mounts, Barton Shifter, JHR Clutch line, BMR adj. UCA and Mount, Kooks 1 3/4 headers/catted H, DSS Al Shaft, BMR Loop, Vogtland Sport Springs front/BMR rear, Strange Adj. Struts/Shocks, Extended ball joints, Steeda Bumpsteer Kit, Whiteline Tranny Mount Bushing, Borla Overaxles, BMR Watts, Vorshlag 3" Ducts
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Thumbs up Shocks?

Nobody said anything about shocks? Bilstein Drag Series Rear 46mm Monotube Shocks are the best! Even the bilstein sport shocks are better than the stock style(Monroe ETC).

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Hi guys:

In terms of NVH what are you getting? Is it just a noise? Or is it vibration in the seats, pedal, floor, steering wheel?

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Not getting much of anything. But some stiction does develop over time and the car does feel like the suspension is moving 'smoother' immediately after re-lubing the bushings & Johnny-joints.


Norm

'08 GT coupe, 5M, wheels, tires, pads, fluid, a few suspension mods . . . still almost stock height
'19 WRX, 6M (hers)
'01 Maxima 20AE, 5M (spare, winter driver)
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I have the standard J&M lower LCA's (not the extreme ones) and they are great. I can't say how well they eliminated wheel hop because I installed them when I lowered my stang, along with a steeda upper control arm, bmr panhard bar, and whiteline LCA relocation brackets. For a non lowered car lower control arms + good tires should get rid of the wheel hop, if not add the upper control arm.


2014 Mustang GT 6R80, Procharger Stage 2 D1SC, BBK 85mm TB, Boss IM, Sai Li fuel system. Circle D 3C, 1-7/8" Kooks Long Tubes w/Offroad X Pipe, Lethal Over-Axle Pipes, Corsa Quad Axle-Back, Eibach Pro System Plus, BMR K member, Shaftmasters DS, Forgestar CF-5 Wheels and Nitto NT05 tires. Lund Tuned

Lots of suspension goodies and some other stuff I can't remember.
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