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-   -   GT stalling at idle in stop go traffic :( (https://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-2014-mustang-gt-tech/1079571-gt-stalling-idle-stop-go-traffic.html)

Clevernamehere 03-07-2019 07:45 PM

GT stalling at idle in stop go traffic :(
 
Hello all.


So for the first time since i had my car i was stuck in stop in go traffic on the highway(my legs are super sore). After about a half hour i noticed the idle rpms dip to around 200 briefly and at first would correct itself but then would completely stall the engine. Sometimes if im quick enough i can gas it and catch it before it stalls.It was about 3 or 4 times in a 1 hour period. I got off on an exit and was driving regularly(regular red light traffic) for a bit and that seemed to correct it but then came back again briefly when i hit another traffic block where it stalled again. about 20 minutes





-2011 mustang GT 107k miles
-airaid CAI (no sleeve)

-diablo 93 octane custom *canned not custom* tune
-no code
-jlt oil thingy

-have seen some weird idle surges rarely since i got the car in NOV/18 but never to the point of stalling.

-the CAI was installed only weeks ago so hard to tell if thats related


I'm going to poke around in the engine tomorrow. Any advice on what to look for and where would be appreciated. Thank you.

MustangLife 03-07-2019 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevernamehere (Post 9226931)
Hello all.


So for the first time since i had my car i was stuck in stop in go traffic on the highway(my legs are super sore). After about a half hour i noticed the idle rpms dip to around 200 briefly and at first would correct itself but then would completely stall the engine. Sometimes if im quick enough i can gas it and catch it before it stalls.It was about 3 or 4 times in a 1 hour period. I got off on an exit and was driving regularly(regular red light traffic) for a bit and that seemed to correct it but then came back again briefly when i hit another traffic block where it stalled again. about 20 minutes





-2011 mustang GT 107k miles
-airaid CAI (no sleeve)

-diablo 93 octane custom tune
-no code
-jlt oil thingy

-have seen some weird idle surges rarely since i got the car in NOV/18 but never to the point of stalling.

-the CAI was installed only weeks ago so hard to tell if thats related


I'm going to poke around in the engine tomorrow. Any advice on what to look for and where would be appreciated. Thank you.

Who wrote the tune for you? I had similar issues with a past mustang after a intake/tune install and gave up and went back to stock and never had the issue again so retired the intake/tune and issue was back so I went back to stock and never had the issue again. So I would bet it has something to do with this. What you can try though is first make sure the intake and everything is tight. Another thing you can try is cleaning the maf sensor as it may have gotten dirty during intake install and maf cleaner is a cheap try and likely needs to be cleaned anyway if you didn't do it at install just due to age it wouldn't hurt.

Beechkid 03-07-2019 08:37 PM

IMHO, here's the issue....


The aftermarket tune is too rich for either the idle or light throttle accel......causing the plugs to foul...when a miss is detected the ECM will automatically raise the rpm 200+ to keep the engine from stalling then slowly bring the idle speed back down unless there is another miss detected.


IMHO, not unusual for most of the "mail order" tunes.....IMHO, go back to stock

MustangLife 03-07-2019 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beechkid (Post 9226937)
IMHO, here's the issue....


The aftermarket tune is too rich for either the idle or light throttle accel......causing the plugs to foul...when a miss is detected the ECM will automatically raise the rpm 200+ to keep the engine from stalling then slowly bring the idle speed back down unless there is another miss detected.


IMHO, not unusual for most of the "mail order" tunes.....IMHO, go back to stock

Pretty much what I was thinking and saying. If you have no issues at stock then it is 100% the tune or intake, but likely the tune.

OP, is you tune from AM? I know they have had lots of issues in the past couple years and this symptom being one.

Clevernamehere 03-07-2019 09:47 PM

mhmm.. your suggestions that it might be the tune does bring me some catharsis as that is easily fixed. rather then say a bad fuel pump or something. . .



Its a canned tune. a friend gave me a I3 diablo sports tuner. They had a tune on there for airaid and 93 octane (after i bought the license) so i haven't interacted with AM in any way but I am going to remove it and try 89 or none at all and see if there is a difference. I will also inspect the CAI and use MAF cleaner although i though that that would throw a code.


appreciate the feedback.


*sorry i said custom tune i meant canned lol

tido2k 03-07-2019 10:41 PM

Or you can also datalog the car and send file to whoever is your tuner so adjustment can be made.

tido2k 03-07-2019 10:44 PM

A canned tune usually works best on a stock car because it simply made based on the components of a stock engine

Dalton2006GT 03-07-2019 11:57 PM

You should data log your car and send the log to your tuner. This is one of the most important steps of getting a tune that some people don't do. If you have a lot of mods, it is almost necessary to data log so nothing catastrophic happens or so the car will have better drivability. Even with a stock car with an intake and a tune it is best to data log just to get the adjustments that the tune needs for your car. Just email your tuner about data logging and they should help you with it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

LiveReckless010 03-08-2019 09:18 AM

Mine did this for the longest time on a BAMA 93R tune. Mail order tune for LTH, O/R H (no cats,) and a JLT intake. Tried a couple datalog sessions to fix it, never really fixed.. just less frequently. Mail order/canned tunes are going to run rich because it's safer than running too lean. When i put in my whipple, I changed to colder heat range plugs, took the old plugs out at only about 7k miles and they were pretty fouled up... mostly from the BAMA tune.

A pretty extensive amount of data logging is needed to have your tune adjusted across the rpms to get everything in check. It took 7 or 8 data logging sessions and 5 revised tunes with Lund to get my tune set for my whipple. Their process isn't much different for N/A cars so I'd imagine that would take about the same to properly tune yours too

LiveReckless010 03-08-2019 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevernamehere (Post 9226947)
Its a canned tune. a friend gave me a I3 diablo sports tuner. They had a tune on there for airaid and 93 octane (after i bought the license) so i haven't interacted with AM in any way but I am going to remove it and try 89 or none at all and see if there is a difference. I will also inspect the CAI and use MAF cleaner although i though that that would throw a code

It depends on the intake you have on the car, if the aftermarket intake's MAF tube is any larger or smaller than stock, dont expect the car to run or even idle right on the stock tune. Not to mention any other modifications that are on the car that require a tune as well may cause the car to not idle right on stock tune.

Pre-Whipple, I tried running my stock tune on my car and it idled like hell, but I only did it for a short period of time because I needed something done at the dealer and didnt want to risk those dumbasses messing anything up

JBert 03-08-2019 09:49 AM

suggestion: before you go off on too big a wild goose chase with the tune, check the simple things first:

> clean the throttle body -- if it has never been cleaned in 107K miles, that could be the issue

> clean the MAF sensor -- probably not the issue, but it is easy to do, make sure you use the real MAF cleaner, not something else which might contaminate it . . . since the new CAI was installed recently, it might have been over-oiled, which throws oil onto the MAF sensor

> make sure air filter is fairly clean, and not over-oiled

once those things are eliminated, you could try putting in the sleeve in the intake so you can try the factory tune; if that eliminates the problem, then you know it is the tune

Clevernamehere 03-08-2019 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalton2006GT (Post 9226963)
You should data log your car and send the log to your tuner. This is one of the most important steps of getting a tune that some people don't do. If you have a lot of mods, it is almost necessary to data log so nothing catastrophic happens or so the car will have better drivability. Even with a stock car with an intake and a tune it is best to data log just to get the adjustments that the tune needs for your car. Just email your tuner about data logging and they should help you with it.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Yeah thats something in my purview. NOt quite sure what consists of data logging though other then running the tuner during WOT or something but im trying to reach out to someone. Diablo agents say they dont do email tunes and refer me out.


Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveReckless010 (Post 9226997)
It depends on the intake you have on the car, if the aftermarket intake's MAF tube is any larger or smaller than stock, dont expect the car to run or even idle right on the stock tune. Not to mention any other modifications that are on the car that require a tune as well may cause the car to not idle right on stock tune.

Pre-Whipple, I tried running my stock tune on my car and it idled like hell, but I only did it for a short period of time because I needed something done at the dealer and didnt want to risk those dumbasses messing anything up


its not currently on a stock tune though. I put the airaid can tune on there to compensate for the bigger intake so it wouldnt freak out .I get what your saying though.


Quote:

Originally Posted by JBert (Post 9227001)
suggestion: before you go off on too big a wild goose chase with the tune, check the simple things first:

> clean the throttle body -- if it has never been cleaned in 107K miles, that could be the issue

> clean the MAF sensor -- probably not the issue, but it is easy to do, make sure you use the real MAF cleaner, not something else which might contaminate it . . . since the new CAI was installed recently, it might have been over-oiled, which throws oil onto the MAF sensor

> make sure air filter is fairly clean, and not over-oiled

once those things are eliminated, you could try putting in the sleeve in the intake so you can try the factory tune; if that eliminates the problem, then you know it is the tune


hopefully Airaid doesnt send there products in such manner. But i will be taking these steps.Thanks

Clevernamehere 03-08-2019 12:49 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attached a screenshot of the data log off my car at idle after a couple minutes. i cant really capture the stall as it was so rare. I understand this is something i need to go over with a pro but perhaps there is something obviously wrong here that someone can point out while i wait for a response. the AFR looks high, my perspective being what the theoretical standard is though. not sure if its weird in this context.

Dalton2006GT 03-08-2019 02:25 PM

I personally don't see anything wrong. However, I am betting it is your maf curve not being where it should be. If you were to do a wide open pull, with the car fully warmed up, let's say from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd the 4th and come to a stop, I would bet the car would die due to the maf curve not being where it should be. To fix this, you would need to send a data log to your tuner. I would recommend getting a tune from lund racing and data logging after you get a tune.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

LiveReckless010 03-08-2019 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clevernamehere (Post 9227023)
Attached a screenshot of the data log off my car at idle after a couple minutes. i cant really capture the stall as it was so rare. I understand this is something i need to go over with a pro but perhaps there is something obviously wrong here that someone can point out while i wait for a response. the AFR looks high, my perspective being what the theoretical standard is though. not sure if its weird in this context.

A screenshot at idle is only a drop in the ocean compared to everything that the PCM looks at. Would need a playable datalog (preferably when the car stalls) to really be able to tell whats going on. I agree with Dalton2006GT, the MAF table could be off OR you could have a similar issue as what I actually have currently going on with my Whippled 2011. Turbulence in the air intake that trips the MAF out after a hard pull. Is your filter element open or enlcosed? Mine is enclosed, using the fresh air feed thru the front bumper as the main way in. After a hard pull, Ill drop into neutral at about maybe 80-90, it'll idle for a bit then fall on her face, while the car is moving. Caught the stall on datalog and Lund wasnt too concerned about it, just attributed to turbulence in the intake tube around the MAF as the MAF is RIGHT behind the massive-ass filter for the Whipple setup.

However, I will say that my stalling issue BEFORE the whipple sounds VERY similar to what youre experiencing, and I was able to trigger it by doing a hard pull (2nd or 3rd gear 2500 to 6000rpm) but it would only stall after coming to a stop and trying to maintain idle, not like now where itll stall while im moving in neutral.

See if you can trigger a stall and catch it on a datalog. PM me for my email so you can send me the datalog that way and I can try to take a look at it.


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