PMAS vs Airaid CAI - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019 Thread Starter
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PMAS vs Airaid CAI

So I'm looking at getting a cold air for my car. Looking at gently used ones since I am in college and gotta ball on a budget. I found a practically new airaid for about half off what it is on AM, however I have always put in my mind I want the PMAS. IS it that big a deal if I am getting a tune anyway and eventually doing long tubes? or should I still go with PMAS since they seem to always produce the most power?

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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019
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I would bet the horsepower difference is probably 2 or 3 horses. It really depends on who tunes your car in the long run. If you want the biggest CAI and gains then go PMAS.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 05-31-2019
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yeah I'd be willing to bet that the difference is very small

But it might depend on which Airaid it is. I am not sure about the current generation, but in the past Airaid offered a "no tune required" CAI, and also a "tune required" version. The difference is that the mass air flow (MAF) tube is the same diameter as stock on the "no tune required" intake, and that's why it does not require a tune. On the other hand, an intake with a larger tube will theoretically produce more gains; but it must have a tune or the MAF sensor readings will be wrong and it won't run right.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheN00B View Post
So I'm looking at getting a cold air for my car. Looking at gently used ones since I am in college and gotta ball on a budget. I found a practically new airaid for about half off what it is on AM, however I have always put in my mind I want the PMAS. IS it that big a deal if I am getting a tune anyway and eventually doing long tubes? or should I still go with PMAS since they seem to always produce the most power?
If you are looking for bling, ok, then it really doesn't matter just get the one that looks "cool"....but if you are looking for any mpg or hp gains, save your $......there is no gain to be had and you already have a factory CAI. Ok, let's just take a look at basic physics.....
The2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm& 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higherthan reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718cfm, ....so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine thatis already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic lawsof physics without a forced induction system.


What many view as an issue (is the plastic intake tube withits noise canceling design) actually increases air pressure. It is the samehydraulic concept used by fire fighters creating water supply where psi is low.By having the air cross the path at a 90 degree angle, the pressure isincreased proportionally. Fire fighters use what is called a “4-way valve” or“Blake Valve” at the hydrant where the water is cycled through the fire engine(pump) and sent back into the valve crossing the water flow at a 90 degreeangle. In this case it also acts as a sound canceling device! At low speeds,this can reduce the flow a tad (which is what most “feel”), but in terms ofpeak hp/tq, a good high flow filter is all that is needed....again, basicphysics.
Now about this new marketing hype that if you have a CAI youneed a custom program………….hogwash!!!!!! The OEM software system is designed to adjust the fuel mixture up to 10%(25% on the 2000+ mod engines).......that’s more than enough to handle fuelmixture adjustments up to 7,000 foot elevation change! (for high elevations 8,000+ there are oemsoftware programs for those specific applications)….the reason for the "software programming" is becsue of "Bad Engineering" on the part of the aftermarket CAI manufacturer......as that had moved (needlessly) the intake sensor location, and it is much cheaper to mfg a 'pipe" straight than it is to create an aerodynamically designed offset ...plus, the retailer then gets to sell you are software programmer- everybody makes $ on a product that produces No repeatable, scientifically verified performance (as far as a stock or near stock engine goes).


In 2012 on jay Leno’s garage, (showing off the new 2013 Mustang GT) when inquired, Fords Mustang Chief Engineer DavePericak specifically stated that the use of an aftermarket CAI will donothing to gain any power.









IMHO, save your $ to put it towards a real use!!!!!

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechkid View Post
If you are looking for bling, ok, then it really doesn't matter just get the one that looks "cool"....but if you are looking for any mpg or hp gains, save your $......there is no gain to be had and you already have a factory CAI. Ok, let's just take a look at basic physics.....
The2013 Mustang 5.0 V8, for example if close to stock (assuming 6,800 max rpm& 90% volumetric efficiency- note that is race car spec and likely higherthan reality) can only suck in a maximum of 535 CFM, and the OEM flat panel filter ( 12.375” x 9.675”) will flow 718cfm, ....so how can just a CAI force more air into an engine thatis already injesting everything it can? It can't plan & simple- basic lawsof physics without a forced induction system.


What many view as an issue (is the plastic intake tube withits noise canceling design) actually increases air pressure. It is the samehydraulic concept used by fire fighters creating water supply where psi is low.By having the air cross the path at a 90 degree angle, the pressure isincreased proportionally. Fire fighters use what is called a “4-way valve” or“Blake Valve” at the hydrant where the water is cycled through the fire engine(pump) and sent back into the valve crossing the water flow at a 90 degreeangle. In this case it also acts as a sound canceling device! At low speeds,this can reduce the flow a tad (which is what most “feel”), but in terms ofpeak hp/tq, a good high flow filter is all that is needed....again, basicphysics.
Now about this new marketing hype that if you have a CAI youneed a custom program………….hogwash!!!!!! The OEM software system is designed to adjust the fuel mixture up to 10%(25% on the 2000+ mod engines).......that’s more than enough to handle fuelmixture adjustments up to 7,000 foot elevation change! (for high elevations 8,000+ there are oemsoftware programs for those specific applications)….the reason for the "software programming" is becsue of "Bad Engineering" on the part of the aftermarket CAI manufacturer......as that had moved (needlessly) the intake sensor location, and it is much cheaper to mfg a 'pipe" straight than it is to create an aerodynamically designed offset ...plus, the retailer then gets to sell you are software programmer- everybody makes $ on a product that produces No repeatable, scientifically verified performance (as far as a stock or near stock engine goes).


In 2012 on jay Leno’s garage, (showing off the new 2013 Mustang GT) when inquired, Fords Mustang Chief Engineer DavePericak specifically stated that the use of an aftermarket CAI will donothing to gain any power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LXYK4rR7Sw







IMHO, save your $ to put it towards a real use!!!!!
You don't think that even with a tune it wouldn't make a difference?
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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My opinion and that's all it is since I don't have a dyno or the equipment or expertise to write or install a tune, is that yes a tune could very well make a difference. The reason being that a tune involves more than just the amount of air entering the engine. An aftermarket tune almost always increases the amount of ignition advance at low to mid range rpms. Generally it also affects the fuel mapping ie. air /fuel mixture. It can and often does change the cam timing on Coyote's which is something that can't be done on stock LS GM engines or 3rd.gen Mopars. I suspect that if this same aftermarket tune were done using the stock air box and a clean new filter the results would be quite similar. It's also worth noting that many of these aftermarket CAI's aren't all that cold since many have an unenclosed air box. Ever wonder why when they show a dyno test the hood is almost always open? So why dosen't the factory use a more aggressive tune and give us another 10-20 horsepower? Well they have to warranty the drive train knowing that not everyone will do anything more than required maintenance [ if that ] and that some will push the car's limits every time they get in it. They also want the engine to be able to run SAFELY on 87 octane fuel even if it does cost a few horses. I have a '14 GT with a track key, Ford's version of an aftermarket tune, and I am sure it bumps the ignition advance quite a bit at low rpm since it gives an extra 60 ft. lbs. of torque at 1,500 rpm and 7 ft. lbs. total. It also REQUIRES the use of 91 or higher octane fuel. FWIW you can go back to using 87 when going back to the standard key if you so desire.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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I think the bottom line to all of this is: there are still some gains to be had with aftermarket intake and tune, but not as much as in the past. There is still some safety margin left in the factory tune, that can be used by a more aggressive tune (with some increased risk) and a more aggressive intake design can flow a little freer than the factory one. But as the factory tunes and intakes get better and better, there is less left on the table for aftermarket.

The way I look at it for my car is: I do these mods for the fun of it, and I don't expect a specific gain ..... don't expect too much, and you won't be disappointed.
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Last edited by JBert; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:56 AM.
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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Keep in mind, the factory tunes are written to cover a wide audience and set of demands. Even in a performance car, they have to meet economy and emissions regulations and also appeal to the masses who only buy a Mustang to look cool in. Take it to a tuner and tell him to write something for premium to race fuel, performance over economy, damn the catalytics and your tune will be quite different than the factory. Not sure if anyone ever does it, but you could get one that would wring every mile out of a gallon of regular gas, and be down 20 HP.
I used to have one of the do-it-yourself tuners for an F150 I had. I have three tunes and everyone had distinct feels and uses. Had an economy tune, towing tune, and balls-to-the-wall premium only let's rumble tune.

So yeah, a lot of the magazine write ups that talk about the gains with a tune and a CAI probably could have gotten the same gains with the tune alone. The CAIs many times give you a nice sound though.
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone! I ended up going with the Airaid as I found a screaming deal (over half off) and I contact my nearest dyno tuner and he said the airaid would give more bottom end pep, which is what a want. A tune is coming shortly and maybe an 18 manifold. Maybe.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 2 Weeks Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBert View Post
yeah I'd be willing to bet that the difference is very small

But it might depend on which Airaid it is. I am not sure about the current generation, but in the past Airaid offered a "no tune required" CAI, and also a "tune required" version. The difference is that the mass air flow (MAF) tube is the same diameter as stock on the "no tune required" intake, and that's why it does not require a tune. On the other hand, an intake with a larger tube will theoretically produce more gains; but it must have a tune or the MAF sensor readings will be wrong and it won't run right.
The new Airaid has an insert that installs ahead of the MAF which makes it "no tune required" but you could remove the insert and tune the car for more gains over stock. This is the CAI that I would like to get because I'm still under warranty and if I had to bring it in for work I could always revert the tune and install the insert to remain driveable


2014 GT Premium, Track Pack, Barton shifter, Borla S-type exhaust, Resonator delete, 3.73 gears, Airaid C.A.I., 93 Race Tune, JLT Oil Separator
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