2011 Mustang 5.0 Engine Problems Again - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #16 of 241 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input.

SJPONY -- While Ford is advertising a 10k oil change interval, the manual says to change it when the oil life indicator says so, or 10k miles, whichever comes first. My oil change indicator is working on a 5000 interval, so that's what I am doing.

I did change it at 1200 miles just to be cautious, with the expectation of changing it again at 5000 and then going on 5000 mile intervals from there on out. Because of my schedule, it actually got changed this time at 4600+ or so. I knew I'd be busy the next week, and the Ford engineer made it clear that I could change it on my interval (after the additive was put in), and the tick would still be gone. Wrong-o.

F91 -- I wasn't trying to disrespect you or Ben, just pointing out the inaccuracies in his post. I haven't used anything but the 5w-20 because I don't want Ford to blame me for the problems. As for voiding the warranty, they would have to prove using the different weight is what caused the problem, but I don't want to wage that war.

Alticavis -- I hear you. But, in this case, it is obvious Ford is not trying to find the real fix, just swinging wildly in the dark in hopes of keeping their repair costs down. I'm a capitalist, so I understand what they are thinking . . . it's cheaper to risk lawsuits and consumer complaints then to fix these the right way.

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Cid- I am truly hoping that the car gets fixed. I also think Ford is letting this run it's course. If they cannot diagnose the problem, they are waiting for it to break. If it turns out to be a global issue, you bet your bottom they want to fix it.
Good luck, I wish you nothing but the best.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidsamuth View Post
Alticavis -- I hear you. But, in this case, it is obvious Ford is not trying to find the real fix, just swinging wildly in the dark in hopes of keeping their repair costs down. I'm a capitalist, so I understand what they are thinking . . . it's cheaper to risk lawsuits and consumer complaints then to fix these the right way.
I see where you are going.......Along your same lines, maybe they have a good idea on what the failure is already, but are trying to go about the least intrusive way of repair, before breaking down to buy a whole engine......(in you case, I would probably demand an engine replacement after all the BS)

It seems to make sense as a business to try the most cost effective route possible - hypothetical quote from Ford - 'it seems issue MAY be fluid related - lets try some additives and see what happens' -- if additives work, then problem solved, cheaply, BUT if they dont work, 'well, looks like its time to start taking these apart and inspecting them'......

Cidsamuth, Im with you 100%. something does need to be done somehow or another......Im just throwing stuff out there, hoping not to make too big of a fool of myself

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cidasmuth, that is more clear. Mine is on a 5000 schedule also. I just wondered why you changed it again before 5000. With all this going on, I'm waiting until 5000. First, they can't fault me for following a guideline more strict than the manual and on target with the oil indicater. Second, I was told not to change it by a certified mechanic and I'll stick by his word. I'm also sticking with the 5/20 so I can't be blamed for any issues that may aries.

I also have a 100K mile warranty, so if it blows up and I have followed all the maintencance recommendations/requirements, then so be it. I certainly don't want that, but that is why I got the warranty.

I really do hopoe you get your car worked out. It sucks that you now have a bad taste for Ford. They are not the best, but they are among the better options out there right now in terms of quality, reliability and value.

My 2010 F-150 has had no issues, nor did my 2010 Mustang or my 2011 Mustang so far (knocking on wood). My 2010 Chrysler 300C goes in soon for a recall and several warranty items. So far, I'm least happy with it, although I'm not totally unhappy. They all have their issues.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidsamuth View Post
F91 -- I wasn't trying to disrespect you or Ben, just pointing out the inaccuracies in his post. I haven't used anything but the 5w-20 because I don't want Ford to blame me for the problems. As for voiding the warranty, they would have to prove using the different weight is what caused the problem, but I don't want to wage that war.
I made that post before I read your other post, I didn't realize you actually saw the bottle containing the additive. I still find it incredibly hard to believe Ford engineers suggested a 75W-140 gear oil for the engine. Keep in mind gear oils are outrageously high in phosphorus/SAPS in order to provide the necessary protection for the extreme pressure sliding movement seen with hypoid gears. Also, while gear oils are incredibly high in phosphorus they are also low in zinc (the detergent part of ZDDP) as gear lubes were not formulated to deal with combustion byproducts. Ford is calling for low SAPs motor oils to protect the emissions systems warranty.

Also keep in mind that a 140 weight gear lube is equivalent in viscosity to a 60 weight motor oil, which are available and better suited to an engine and emissions systems.

Viscosity Charts

If the dealer wants to put a 75W-140 gear lube into your engine, I'd tell them you prefer 2 quarts of this: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=130&pcid=21

Compare the viscosity (in centistokes) to this 75-140 gear lube: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=39&pcid=4

As you can see, they are virtually identical.

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post #21 of 241 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010 Thread Starter
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Ben, thanks.

With both the additive they put in before and the gear lube they want to add, they claim that it contains ingredients that will facilitate break in and make the noise go away faster.

It's crap, to be frank. With 5000 miles on the car, how much more break in is necessary? The car sounds worse and worse . . .

See the below thread, which I was following before changing the oil and the noise coming back. In it, the OP concludes he has the same problem I do -- and then Ford puts in the 75w-140 and the problem is not solved. Fast forward, and they want to now take the same useless step with my car.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...my-2011-a.html
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Instead of letting the dealership experiment with your car, I say just beat the tar out of that thing with a good 5W-30/0W-40 and see if the noise goes away, gets worse or something finally lets go.

Let somebody else be the guinea pig, a TSB based on real info will come out before long.

Do you have a vid of the noise? I'm curious to hear it.

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post #23 of 241 (permalink) Old 09-03-2010 Thread Starter
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While I can appreciate the benefits of being able to have that attitude, I cannot. I'm not making a hefty car payment so that I can listen to that noise . . . or be Ford's guinea pig either. I retained an attorney today, so we'll see what happens.

I haven't tried to get a video of the noise, but I'll see what I can do.
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cid, I feel bad for you. This is the same feeling I had while trying to get any shred of information as to when my car was going to be delivered. It's a good thing that your dealership is being helpful. All I can say is figure out what resolution you will be happy with in the event that it does not get corrected to your satisfaction and create a log with everything that has happened. You may need to invoke the lemon law at some point. I really don't understand why they would put gear oil in the thing and expect your oil pressure to stay in a safe range. I've seen F16 engine failures due to overpressure of the lube system. Blows a seal, all the oil is consumed, engine locks up, plane crashes, bad day. (Maintenance caused issue).

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I'm just hoping some Ford engineers is reading this thread cuz i too have a small ticking noise mostly at idle.
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post #26 of 241 (permalink) Old 09-04-2010 Thread Starter
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If a Ford engineer is reading this, he should be ashamed. I still shake my head when I think about adding 2 quarts 75w-140 gear lubricant to my crankcase.

I might ask them to try changing the entire oil out to 5w-50 first before making the gear lube move (similar to Bet99GT's suggestion). The other part of me just figures I'll let them do whatever they think is best, knowing I have little confidence it will work.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidsamuth View Post
If a Ford engineer is reading this, he should be ashamed. I still shake my head when I think about adding 2 quarts 75w-140 gear lubricant to my crankcase.

I might ask them to try changing the entire oil out to 5w-50 first before making the gear lube move (similar to Bet99GT's suggestion). The other part of me just figures I'll let them do whatever they think is best, knowing I have little confidence it will work.
So CID what's the next step with your ordeal ? Do you have to bring in the car at the dealership soon !
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cidsamuth View Post
If a Ford engineer is reading this, he should be ashamed. I still shake my head when I think about adding 2 quarts 75w-140 gear lubricant to my crankcase.

I might ask them to try changing the entire oil out to 5w-50 first before making the gear lube move (similar to Bet99GT's suggestion). The other part of me just figures I'll let them do whatever they think is best, knowing I have little confidence it will work.
I just wonder how a loud tick could slip through R&D. They do test these engines right? And Ford never noticed anything with abnormal acoustics????

I just find it hard to believe this caught Ford by surprise. Good job keeping it documented and possibly bringing legality into the issue. Maybe you can successfully extract the TRUTH better than the rest of us guinea pigs.

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post #29 of 241 (permalink) Old 09-04-2010 Thread Starter
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I have read a bunch about how Ford fit 3 years worth of development into 2 years. Obviously, some stuff got missed. You could also argue that these things would happen regardless to how much time they put into R&D.

I am less upset that it happened and more upset in how Ford has handled it. I'm scheduled to return to my dealer in a week for the attempted gear lube fix to the "ignitor tick" and the attempt to diagnose the idle ticking (which Ford thinks is lash adjusters -- completely ignoring that it got exponentially worse after the additive was put in last month).

Again, the dealership has been great, but they can only do what Ford tells (allows) them to do. I have no faith that it will get fixed, and I have retained an attorney to step in. By Michigan law, we have to send them a certified letter giving them one last opportunity to fix the problem, so I believe that's what is going to happen before the aforementioned appointment. I have kept the entire ordeal documented and chronicled . . .
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Ben and I are going to agree on this, as we both post in BITOG forums.

Put in a full 100% synthetic, something at least 30-40 weight, with a high ZDDP add pack and beat the crap out of it.

The reason the noise stopped when they put additive in it is because it increased the weight of the oil. I think we may have finally found the nail in the coffin for 5W-20 in a modular.


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