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Stock Intake vs After market

20K views 79 replies 28 participants last post by  JohnRichard 
#1 ·
So, at first I was planning to get a cold air intake (I haven't even bought the ccar yet, it'll be a 2011 or maybe a 2012, but as I'm researching here, I'm seeing that they designed somewhat of a CAI into the engine already.

So, if anybody has experience, what kind of actual improvement would I really get with a CAI and a tune, vs keeping the stock intake and just having a tune?

If you have any actual hp estimates, that would be appreciated. I don't want to sound obnoxiously loud, and there's an 80% chance I'll keep the stock exhaust.
 
#2 ·
So its like night and day.. Stock cold air box and Ford's stock tune vs. something like a Steeda CAI and custom tune. Theres a reason why CAI like Steeda need a tune. It changes the car that MUCH.

GO to www.brenspeed.com, see the video's, check out the dyno results for the new 5.0

I think your questions will be anwsered.

It will transform a great new Ford power plant and take it to the next level..

They should issue a warning label and neck brace with every order...LOL

:wavey
 
#3 ·
I've struggled with this too. I want a CAI, but will probably go drop in K&N filter.
The thing is- The tune is what is making the difference in performance.
The intake is an airflow setup, so an engine needs X amount of airflow to produce HP. If the factory setup has enough airflow to allow the car to produce 500 HP, then you wouldn't need a CAI, right?
The aftermarket intakes do look and sound better, for sure, but on the 2011, they just aren't "needed".
There are numbers at this thread-
http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/2011-mustang-gt-tech/257904-5-0-k-n-air-filter.html
 
#4 ·
F91,

Of course, to each his own, everyones opinions are fine. To me , I have try both and there is a big difference, again, IMO

Just curious, have you ever had a aftermarket CAI with a custom tune on any of your cars??

I ask, not to be a wise guy, just saying, I too had the same thoughts a few years back until I put the Steeda CAI and custom tune on my 08GT. I tried the K&N filter change out back then first with a tune.

I found the changeover to the aftermarket CAI and updating the tune to the new airflow CFM's, made a noticable differance in performance.

Thats why I was incline this time to go right to changing out the stock 5.0 airbox.

:wavey
 
#7 ·
No worries, we are all friends here. Yes- have full intakes on 2 cars (350 Z and Altima). Minimal gain without a tune. If you read the other folks responses here, you are seeing numbers between 2 and 7 HP difference in the K&N filter and an aftermarket CAI on the 2011. Other cars do not have as efficient an Intake as the stock GT. Older models I would certainly expect better numbers. Math wise, like everyone says, there's only so much air an engine can use. The tune is the MAJOR difference. Honest.

EDIT- I hung out a little with Slimpickenz yesterday. He has the Steeda and Brenspeed tunes. His comments were that the 93 tune is incredible and quite a difference between the other 2 tunes. No arguments here. Was concerned about some surging issues though.
 
#5 ·
Someone has done the dyno tune with stock airbox for baseline and a dyto tune with a cold air intake. The net difference (tuning both setups )was something like 7 hp.
 
#6 ·
For what it's worth. 5.0 M & SF September issue. In the "Street Feat" acticle, if you read carefully, you will see they did a drop-in with a tune. Hp went from 368.6 to 384. Exhaust mods HP went to 405. Added a Steeda prototype CAI and HP went to 407. My math shows an increase of 2 HP, not worth $400 to me. Now they do say "Prototype". The question is was the Steeda final product much better? I can't answer that. Just my .02.
 
#8 ·
Just wanted to chime in here!

I haven't done any HP mods yet mainly because I'll be waiting for a while till I learn more.

So far from what I've seen & read I'm leaning towards the brenspeed 93 octane tune w/steeda CAI.Heard some reports of a surge issue with some of the tunes just 1 reason why I'm waiting.

Been leaning towards Corsa for the exhaust.They say & guarantee no drone.Not sure how true this is though.
 
#77 ·
You will be very happy with the Corsa exhaust. I have it on my car. Sounds great under acceleration and there is no drone at highway/interstate speeds.
 
#9 ·
I'm going to put the money that I would spend on CAI towards a good cat back exhaust. Stock exhaust has crimps on resonators and over axle pipes. I'm just going to put in K&N and good tune. Now on my 08 GT500 with forced induction a Steeda CAI made a big difference. Put your money into a good exhaust and tune.
 
#10 ·
Couldnt agree more. Notice all the CAI come with tunes? Yes it does change the Maf transfer function but 90% of the gain is from the tune itself. Granted this car has a dyno tune in it but it doesnt have the cold air intake. Just a simple K&N and tune. It makes good power and the owner can drive it very well considering he was also having the clutch issues. It will have a new ram clutch soon. I think a CAI is a waste of 350$ for now. When the car is making much more power and or the cai are cheap then i would consider it but at this point the factory cai is more than enough.
2011 mustang - Car Videos on StreetFire


Btw i saw the car in the video trap 118 on one pass. Owner said he was short shifting it at 6200 to keep the clutch from hanging on the floor.
 
#11 ·
I can understand choosing your mods carefully,
and even not modding at all as this new 5.0 is a monster in stock trim.

I had my mods planned long before my car arrived.I can tell you that with my combo of exhaust,CAI,tune it is a big difference from stock.

I never dynoed my car stock but with current mods it made 406rwhp and 386rwtq. The tunes are worth every penny and so far my BlowByRcaing 91oct tune is a real winner with no surging issues and the A/F was perfect at a safe 12.5

YouTube - Patricks 2011 Mustang 5.0 Dyno
 
#12 ·
I can understand choosing your mods carefully,
and even not modding at all as this new 5.0 is a monster in stock trim.

I had my mods planned long before my car arrived.I can tell you that with my combo of exhaust,CAI,tune it is a big difference from stock.

I never dynoed my car stock but with current mods it made 406rwhp and 386rwtq. The tunes are worth every penny and so far my BlowByRcaing 91oct tune is a real winner with no surging issues and the A/F was perfect at a safe 12.5

YouTube - Patricks 2011 Mustang 5.0 Dyno
That was one thing I was going to ask.(Or just throw a wideband in the exhaust) What was the common WOT Mixture look like.

I didnt expect it to actually be "that" rich. Im around 12.5 on my STi at 10-12psi(WOT 20PSI, 11.5 3500 - 10.8 7k)

Thanks for that patrick

Mike
 
#15 ·
Based on info on Brenspeed's website, gains are almost 15hp more with CAI over drop in. On their tune at least. Look at their description on just the tuner package.
 
#16 ·
Are you refering to this?

"By far the #1 first modification for your 2011+ Mustang gt is one of our aftermarket air intake and custom Brenspeed tuned X3. Gains of as much as 30+ horsepower are possible with just our Brenspeed tuned SCT X3 and add one of our air intake systems for another gain of near 15 HP."

I didn't see where they tested a drop in filter alone. I read this as replacing the stock CAI and stock filter. The stock filter I would think is a restriction, although I admit I have not looked at it, but I assume it's a paper filter?
 
#17 ·
Are you refering to this?

"By far the #1 first modification for your 2011+ Mustang gt is one of our aftermarket air intake and custom Brenspeed tuned X3. Gains of as much as 30+ horsepower are possible with just our Brenspeed tuned SCT X3 and add one of our air intake systems for another gain of near 15 HP."

I didn't see where they tested a drop in filter alone. I read this as replacing the stock CAI and stock filter. The stock filter I would think is a restriction, although I admit I have not looked at it, but I assume it's a paper filter?
you are correct. I misread it. Now you have me wondering. A non-issue for me though as I already have the CAI and tuner on the way from them.

You did remind me of something else I read though...

C&L 2011 5.0L Mustang Cold Air Intake System (Tune Required) [10699-11-PI] : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs

If this is true then any CAI designed like C&L's would make a substantial difference.

I am going to get a baseline Dyno this weekend on a Dynojet with Wideband A/F. Maybe I'll ask Brenspeed for a 93 octane "drop in" tune and get that dyno'd as well, and then another after I get my CAI on. Let me add up the cost of my throw away K&N filter and Brenspeed tune, and maybe I'll be a guinea pig for you guys if it isn't too much. :)
 
#21 ·
Very cool! Looking forward to the results. If you decide you don't need the drop-in K & N (and if I haven't bought one yet) I will help you recoup some of your cost and buy it from you. Just let me know if you want to sell it. If not, I'm sure someone will buy it from you.
 
#22 ·
Got an answer from BrenSpeed. They are going to do some testing with just the drop in filter. Sent them the link to this post so they can comment and chime in when they have results. So, it'll save me some money and time. :)
 
#23 ·
Awesome! :bigthumbsup
 
#24 ·
I was just thinking about this and if Brenspeed does prove there isn't much to be gained with the after-market CAI it will prove they are a really stand up kind of company. On the other hand it won't help them sell any after-market CAIs. Very interested to see if their results match up with others.
 
#26 ·
Here are results from JLT CAI and tune. So i say a CAI does work.

Here our CAI and tune package gained 33 RWHP and 40 RWTQ at 3300 rpm and 30 RWHP and 35 RWTQ at peak.
Read this 2011 Ford 5.0 Mustang GT by Evolution Performance - 5.0 Mustang & Super Fords

Notice how a drop in filter and a tune went from 368HP to 384HP. The exhaust brought 405HP. Then, they switched to a Steeda CAI and went to 407HP. So, this tells you that the majority of the gain is from a better flowing filter and a tune. The CAI was only worth 2HP over the drop in K&N filter, tune and stock CAI. This is on a 2011 GT.
 
#27 ·
The Bama car with just tune gained 16 peak rwhp and with C&L went to 22 peak rwhp and they gained another 4-5 rwhp with Steeda CAI over the C&L. So they gained 6-11 rwhp with after market CAI's. We need independent dyno runs with just tune and then tune and CAI.
 
#28 ·
Was the 16HP gain with the stock paper filter?
 
#30 ·
That proves my point. They are hampering the stock CAI with a paper filter, which makes the after-market CAI look better in comparison. All after-market CAIs come with high flow K&N type(Cotton with wire mesh) filters. It's like me saying "I can breath in more air than you can, as long as you plug one nostril." They only show a gain of 6HP over the stock CAI and a tune with the C&L CAI and tune. So $359 to $379 for 6HP? How much HP is the K&N drop in filter worth for $50-$60?
I don't think they really want you to know that answer.
 
#45 ·
If you are refering to the post above. I don't see on the posted link where you test the stock CAI with a K&N drop in filter. Maybe I didn't read it carefully enough?
 
#33 ·
OK, so the stock intake with a paper filter flows 748 cfm.

The best numbers I can find on the heads are:

"We'd love to show a flow chart of the new head, but Ford was reluctant to post exact numbers. It causes them headaches from snivelers who don't precisely replicate the published results. But don't doubt the Coyote heads howl all over the V-8 competition. Our guesstimate is these intakes flow a bit over 300 cfm."

2011 Mustang GT Coyote Engine - 5.0 Mustang & Fast Fords

2 heads @ 300 cfm = 600 cfm.

The stock intake is more than sufficient, from what I can tell...

One thing I don't quite get (from LP's website): an additional 16 cfm makes it need a tune???

"The original factory assembly on the new "5.0" flows 748 CFM, while the new replacement upgrade from C&L flows 1,096 CFM in a "no tune" required configuration and 1,112 CFM with tuning required. "

C&L 2011 5.0L Mustang Cold Air Intake System (Tune Required) [10699-11-PI] : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs
 
#34 ·
It's more than just the extra 16CFM you have to worry about. The diameter of the mass air housing changes in the "tune required" CAI. It's fluid dynamics. If the volume of fluid does not change, and the amount of time does not change, but the diameter of the path does, then the speed of the fluid would have to change as well. If the diameter increases the same volume can be moved in the same amount of time at a slower speed. if the diameter is made smaller, then the speed of the fluid must be increased to deliver the same volume in the same amount of time.

The mass air flow sensor measures the amount of heat dissipation from a wire. It is calibrated to the diameter of housing it is in. All other things being equal (the MAF is sensitive to the density of the charge as well), slower moving air will dissipate less heat from the wire thereby affecting the formula used to calculate how much air the engine is actually getting.

A tune is necessary to account for the lower voltage drop across the wire needed to maintain its set temperature. (I am assuming the Mustang uses a hot wire mass airflow sensor, but the conclusion is the same)
 
#35 ·
Ford engineers have said the intakes are fine from 10+ I would expect there is enough interpertation of "fine" to allow for <10hp and probably <5hp gains to be had.

The tune probably performs better with a bit more air flow and that would be where the numbers come from.

If it were me, id do a drop in K&N and tune and be done with it.

Will be interesting to see...
 
#37 ·
I'm very happy with my Steeda/SCT power pak. 44HP and 52LBFT is definitely noticeable on the butt-o-meter and the sound at wide open throttle is not something you will get with a drop in.
 
#38 ·
I just went and got the K&N Filter and decided to take a look at the website to see more information about the filter itself. Let me state I got the drop in for my 2011 GT.

Here is the part Number and picture of the item.

33-2431 - K&N Replacement Filters, Replacement Air Filter

Here is a PDF where they did some testing of the unit.

http://www.knfilters.com/dynocharts/33-2431.pdf

Now on the box it shows a typical airflow for a cone filter and a panel filter. The K&N cone filter over a stock cone filter showed a 881 CFM to 545 CFM. The K&N Panel Filter was a 441 CFM vs the stock Panel Filter of 319 CFM. The Box states that those numbers can changed per application.

So on the PDF our 2011 Application for a panel type filter shows 450 CFM. Compare that to the K&N Cone filter above which is 881CFM.

So is this why some of the CAI's that you buy would need a tune? If a company is being cheesy and just giving you a "Paper" type cone filter then that isnt that much of a change over the K&N Drop in filter that doesn't require a tune.

Anyway I hope I didn't just muddy the waters here.
 
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