Stock vs. ProCal vs. Bama - 2011 Mustang GT Dyno Results - Page 3 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Low meaning not enough spark advance at WOT?
I'm sure you've seen how conservative the timing is on the 4V ECU's are from the factory, you'll see high teens at WOT when they can take up to 30, that's why the custom tune losing HP was strange to me...


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post #32 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-01-2011 Thread Starter
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Low meaning not enough spark advance at WOT?
I'm sure you've seen how conservative the timing is on the 4V ECU's are from the factory, you'll see high teens at WOT when they can take up to 30, that's why the custom tune losing HP was strange to me...
Yeah, at WOT the timing is low. We've seen how they have the knock sensitivity set up as well as their commanded spark numbers, etc. It's very... very... conservative.

There stuff for the 3Vs and 500's were just about the same as far as ultra-conservative goes.


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Gotcha! could you tell if timing was being pulled from the logs?

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post #34 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-01-2011 Thread Starter
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Yeah, the knock sensors were pulling timing, just like they do with the stock file on 93 octane. They have the knock sensor calibration all out of whack (Ford in general) not just this tune.

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Yeah, the knock sensors were pulling timing, just like they do with the stock file on 93 octane. They have the knock sensor calibration all out of whack (Ford in general) not just this tune.
Data I recorded with the FRPP tune (for MT) doesnt show any timing being pulled (and it pinged). Maybe the FRPP tune's engine management for AT is not the same as my MT version.
Also recorded some data with the bama performance tune (91 oct tune). It pulled up to 5.5 degrees when I floored it. I didnt hear any pinging.
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post #36 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Data I recorded with the FRPP tune (for MT) doesnt show any timing being pulled (and it pinged). Maybe the FRPP tune's engine management for AT is not the same as my MT version.
Also recorded some data with the bama performance tune (91 oct tune). It pulled up to 5.5 degrees when I floored it. I didnt hear any pinging.
The spark/knock portions of the FRPP manual and auto tunes are nearly identical. What was your overall timing number at WOT?

Also keep in mind livelink is inaccurate with a few of the PIDS/DMRS (the knock reads completely incorrect), and you really should be datalogging with an IDS. It's the only thing that is accurate right now.

As for the Bama tune, the way that we set up spark is much different than the FRPP calibration. I don't know how old your calibration is, but if it was pulling 5.5 (which I don't believe livelink is displaying correctly), it's been updated (Where it physically cant pull THAT much timing unless there's audible knock) - the knock sensor sensitivity is a very important part of the calibration. We were setting ours up originally similar to FRPP, but have since done MANY things different. Also, with the Bama tune, what was your overall timing number at WOT?

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The spark/knock portions of the FRPP manual and auto tunes are nearly identical. What was your overall timing number at WOT?

Also keep in mind livelink is inaccurate with a few of the PIDS/DMRS (the knock reads completely incorrect), and you really should be datalogging with an IDS. It's the only thing that is accurate right now.

As for the Bama tune, the way that we set up spark is much different than the FRPP calibration. I don't know how old your calibration is, but if it was pulling 5.5 (which I don't believe livelink is displaying correctly), it's been updated (Where it physically cant pull THAT much timing unless there's audible knock) - the knock sensor sensitivity is a very important part of the calibration. We were setting ours up originally similar to FRPP, but have since done MANY things different. Also, with the Bama tune, what was your overall timing number at WOT?
Couple screenshots attached. Sorry if it looks amateurish.

How so Livelink is inaccurate? I noticed that the data sometimes looks a bit strange, I thought because it doesnt record that many data points per second. But are the numbers actually wrong sometimes?

I ordered my bama tuner/tunes on 12/7.
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Those logs won't help Chris much, I don't see a TP mode listed so there's no idea what the WOT timing was?? Also why wasn't MAF counts and Volts logged? that's pretty important stuff?

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post #39 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-03-2011 Thread Starter
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Those timing numbers LOOK like they were at WOT, but BrutalMetal is right - in order to tell we need either throttle position (which we can compare to the TP for optimum power mode) or spark source (which livelink, again, doesn't have). These MAF's read frequency, so you have to read it in khz. However, the khz don't work properly in livelink (i believe it's called MAF period and has to be converted). They only operate in closed loop, even at WOT (optimum power mode). Since the o2 sensors are now wideband, it gets feedback at wot and doesn't have a "open loop" mode. The TP for Optimum Power mode is what we'd look for. This optimum power mode has it's own spark tables, fuel tables, etc. It's like open-loop, the only difference is you get o2 feedback.

The numbers on those datalogs are definitely innacurate, though - either way. The spark advance reads weird... close, but weird. The knock is BS, though. I do believe 0 knock is 0 knock, but once it starts getting knock feedback, the ford IDS unit shows WAY different results. We went out and bought the Ford IDS specifically for datalogging the 11's because of this issue. It's a $3000 tool, but it's worth it to ensure the accuracy of thousands of tunes.

The problem is just that the stuff doesn't read correctly in Livelink yet. SCT hasn't had a chance to get around to getting it perfect. Some stuff works great, some stuff doesn't work at all, some stuff works but doesn't read correctly.

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the ford IDS unit shows WAY different results.
The new IDS is a [GULP] nearly $4000 unit if I'm looking at the right thing. Guess most of us will have to leave it up to you...

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post #41 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-03-2011 Thread Starter
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The new IDS is a [GULP] nearly $4000 unit if I'm looking at the right thing. Guess most of us will have to leave it up to you...
I've seen them go anywhere from 3-4K. That's the one.

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I don't know how old your calibration is, but if it was pulling 5.5 (which I don't believe livelink is displaying correctly), it's been updated
Chris, I ordered my tune on dec 7. Is that the updated version? It probably is since that's only a month ago - just wanted to be sure.
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Chris, I ordered my tune on dec 7. Is that the updated version? It probably is since that's only a month ago - just wanted to be sure.
Yes sir! You should be good to go!

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Bet the SCT factory Strategy tune is about equal to the Bama tune ! Really woke up my 2011 GT with a/t.
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post #45 of 169 (permalink) Old 01-14-2011 Thread Starter
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Bet the SCT factory Strategy tune is about equal to the Bama tune ! Really woke up my 2011 GT with a/t.
That's a bet I'd be willing to go against. I'd be willing to wager on the air/fuel ratio and how far off it's being corrected too.


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