Stock vs. ProCal vs. Bama - 2011 Mustang GT Dyno Results - Page 9 - Ford Mustang Forum
Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
daddydGT
Guest
 
daddydGT's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by cababah View Post
It is not a warranty kept through Ford motor company; it is a warranty from Ford Racing that will supposedly pay for a new engine should the tune be proven to have caused the failure.

I don't know about you but I would definitely get that checked out on a dyno before assuming everything is OK. You can't hear things as well while driving the car as opposed to standing beside the engine while it is going WOT. I would rather take a non-pinging factory engine that I know is backed by the actual Ford company over the FRPP pinging tune that only gave me an additional 10whp anyway.
Actually I have dyno'd my car! 3 different times and nothing but good things to report here! Best $400 I have spent on this car yet! No pinging at wot with hood open and me and the shop owner listening and monitoring...and when you drive the car trust me it's a whole new car! And the hp gain is only a small piece of why is great.

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Apprentice
 
ready4-2011's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 64
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daddydGT View Post
And I'm not cutting down other cai kits and other tuning companies! Just giving some knowledge I have learned over the year. The problem with a mail order "canned tuned" is they are tuned to a specific car and specific conditions and every car is different and all condition are different...like buying a tune from sunny Florida and using it on a different car in canada where it's -30 Celsius is not safe! So just because the tune is safe on the tuners company isnt running lean or rich on there car doesnt meen it's going to be the same on your car! All cars are different just like some make 367hp and some make 381 stock.
So...you purchase a "canned tune" from Ford Racing and then go on to say that "canned tunes" are not as safe?? You are contradicting yourself. I don't think a company as big as Bama or Ford Racing for that matter, would create a tune that would cause the damage to a car as you suggest. These companies would not be in business as long as they have been if they were as harmful as you make them out to be. I think you have an agenda on here and it is coming out pretty clear. Anecdotal evidence does not pass the smell test...


2011 GT premium/Auto Trans./Ford Racing 3.73 gear/Airaid Intake/Bama tunes/Koni STR-T/Steeda sport springs/Steeda UCA, LCA, and adjustable panhard bar/Borla Atak cat-back/Steeda 14" brake kit on front and 13" brake kit on rear wheels, UPR catch-can...
ready4-2011 is offline  
Apprentice
 
ready4-2011's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 64
 
If you run a tuned car hard on a consistent basis (Pick a tune from any major company) you will eventually cut the life of your car short and may have problems..Same thing applies to a car with no tune and ZERO mods...Run it hard and you are more likely to experience long term issues.

Pick a tune from any of the big names, Bama, Steeda, Brenspeed, Ford Racing, etc and don't thrash your car and you will be fine. People lose credibility pretty quick when they start bashing one companies tune over the other as if there is some big conspiracy out there to send junk tunes just to make a profit If anything, any of the reputable tune companies that have been around for a while will stay within safe parameters. If company X sent hundreds of "unsafe" tunes to the masses that they service, don't you think they would have trouble staying in business very long??

2011 GT premium/Auto Trans./Ford Racing 3.73 gear/Airaid Intake/Bama tunes/Koni STR-T/Steeda sport springs/Steeda UCA, LCA, and adjustable panhard bar/Borla Atak cat-back/Steeda 14" brake kit on front and 13" brake kit on rear wheels, UPR catch-can...
ready4-2011 is offline  
 
PONY Member
 
icckart's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 462
 
Personally, before I put ANYBODY'S tune on my car, I want an answer to the questions I posted in this thread long ago: Namely, what happens when you run LOWER octane gas than the tune is "spec'd" for. The tuners (incl. Chris) seem to have posted some contradictory statements on this.

One of FRPP's main points (if you read the whole blurb on their tune) is that in CONTRAST to other tunes, theirs fully responds to octane variations, just like the "stock" tune.

With 91 pushing $4.00 (will be $4.50 by summer), it would be nice to be able to switch to 89 without having to re-program.

Also, realize that if your programmer (Procal or SCT) ever dies (and electronics have a way of doing that...) you will not be able to DIRECTLY restore your stock tune. For SCT-based tunes (Bama, Brenspeed, others) you have to contact SCT with your PCM ID # to get a default factory "restore". Don't know how FRPP would handle this?!? What if (like one other thread here) your PCM sticker got removed??? Seems like at the very least, if you're going to use a tune, you'd better write down your PCM sticker numbers someplace safe. Remember, your power train warranty is 6 years. Is your programer (the actual SCT X3 device) going to safely "backup" your stock tune for that long???

Why do you care? Well, when you go to the dealer for ANYTHING (ok, prob. not an oil change) that requires them to check the OBD port, they will immediately see you don't have the stock PCM load. What will they do? Who knows - maybe that gets noted in your "perminent record". In any case with failing MT82's left and right, I'm pretty sure I'll be in for some major warranty repairs at some point (at least a TSB on the tranny). I suspect the dealer would, at a minimum, decline to work on your "modified" car.

Personally, for the MINIMAL TRUE gains actually being seen, it doesn't seem worth the risk (but for auto owners maybe a diff. story). I suspect MOST of the "feel" differences - that "whole new car" claim - are mainly due to remapping of the TPS curve. If the tunes "tighten" it, you'd get a higher throttle command at a lower TPS value (pedal position), which would clearly change the driveability and feel. I'll bet a tune that does NOTHING other than that would get rave reviews (until somebody dyno'd it).

2011 GT Kona Blue with 401A Black+Cashmire - HID, Security, Brembo, 3.55, Comfort, Rear Camera, and Glass Roof.
Mods: Steeda Sport Springs and HD mount (2011+ style), Koni "Yellows", UMI roto-joint adj. PHB - oh, and one big scratch in a BBP wheel!
icckart is offline  
PONY Member
5.0L Member
S197 Member
 
Timeless's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Columbia
Posts: 833
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icckart View Post
Personally, before I put ANYBODY'S tune on my car, I want an answer to the questions I posted in this thread long ago: Namely, what happens when you run LOWER octane gas than the tune is "spec'd" for. The tuners (incl. Chris) seem to have posted some contradictory statements on this.

One of FRPP's main points (if you read the whole blurb on their tune) is that in CONTRAST to other tunes, theirs fully responds to octane variations, just like the "stock" tune.

With 91 pushing $4.00 (will be $4.50 by summer), it would be nice to be able to switch to 89 without having to re-program.
Couple things. The Ford tune can be set to octane adjust or not, so it would need to have octane adjust turned on to truly be safe with less than the set octane tune.

Flashing the lower octane tune really does not take long and I would assume you would plan on keeping it there until prices went back down which won't be for a while.

Current Ride: 2014 RAM 1500 SPORT
Toy: 89 RX7-Turbo (Future LS Swap)
Timeless is offline  
PONY Member
 
icckart's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 462
 
[quote=Timeless;2450500]Couple things. The Ford tune can be set to octane adjust or not, so it would need to have octane adjust turned on to truly be safe with less than the set octane tune./quote]

Yeah, but it least with theirs you have that option! As I understand it you set that param. right on the Procal (and so can change at will). I've not yet read how Bama or Brenspeed deal with this (and like I said, they've made some conflicting posts on this issue)???

2011 GT Kona Blue with 401A Black+Cashmire - HID, Security, Brembo, 3.55, Comfort, Rear Camera, and Glass Roof.
Mods: Steeda Sport Springs and HD mount (2011+ style), Koni "Yellows", UMI roto-joint adj. PHB - oh, and one big scratch in a BBP wheel!
icckart is offline  
PONY Member
5.0L Member
S197 Member
 
Timeless's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2010
Location: Columbia
Posts: 833
 
[QUOTE=icckart;2450513]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
Couple things. The Ford tune can be set to octane adjust or not, so it would need to have octane adjust turned on to truly be safe with less than the set octane tune./quote]

Yeah, but it least with theirs you have that option! As I understand it you set that param. right on the Procal (and so can change at will). I've not yet read how Bama or Brenspeed deal with this (and like I said, they've made some conflicting posts on this issue)???
I can tell you that most tunes that are octane specific you better have that octane or you will take a chance of damage....and this is for any car not just Mustangs.

Current Ride: 2014 RAM 1500 SPORT
Toy: 89 RX7-Turbo (Future LS Swap)
Timeless is offline  
PONY Member
 
icckart's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 462
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timeless View Post
I can tell you that most tunes that are octane specific you better have that octane or you will take a chance of damage....and this is for any car not just Mustangs.
Precisely my POINT. This is what I suspect - but I'm not selling tunes. If this is TRUE, then I'd like to see AMChris and/or the Brenspeed guys just come out and SAY IT. There's a LOT of BS posted about how tunes won't damage you're motor. In this thread you guys basically flamed the poster who was worried about damage. OK, so EVEN if you're not trashing the car, if you put a lower octane in I suspect you'll have the possibility of causing engine damage. If that's TRUE (again, none of the tuners will actually confirm or refute it - hey they all wanna sell you something - kinda bad for biz to tell you it might grenade your motor!) let's get the REAL story on what happens up front.

There have been conflicting reports (in this thread) about FRPP tunes pinging (or not). Personally I'm staying way from tunes (all of 'um) until someone gives me the straight scoop, meaning some real technical data = advance curves, amount of timing "pull" (retard) when detonation is sensed, etc.

2011 GT Kona Blue with 401A Black+Cashmire - HID, Security, Brembo, 3.55, Comfort, Rear Camera, and Glass Roof.
Mods: Steeda Sport Springs and HD mount (2011+ style), Koni "Yellows", UMI roto-joint adj. PHB - oh, and one big scratch in a BBP wheel!
icckart is offline  
Apprentice
 
ready4-2011's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 64
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icckart View Post
Precisely my POINT. This is what I suspect - but I'm not selling tunes. If this is TRUE, then I'd like to see AMChris and/or the Brenspeed guys just come out and SAY IT. There's a LOT of BS posted about how tunes won't damage you're motor. In this thread you guys basically flamed the poster who was worried about damage. OK, so EVEN if you're not trashing the car, if you put a lower octane in I suspect you'll have the possibility of causing engine damage. If that's TRUE (again, none of the tuners will actually confirm or refute it - hey they all wanna sell you something - kinda bad for biz to tell you it might grenade your motor!) let's get the REAL story on what happens up front.

There have been conflicting reports (in this thread) about FRPP tunes pinging (or not). Personally I'm staying way from tunes (all of 'um) until someone gives me the straight scoop, meaning some real technical data = advance curves, amount of timing "pull" (retard) when detonation is sensed, etc.
You make some valid points. I would be interested as well to see if putting in lower octane would damage the engine with a fixed octane tune. If fuel continues to climb and I want to lower the octane, I will just load a lower octane tune. It only takes a couple minutes to do. For now, I couldn't be more happy with my 91 octane tune. All aspects of the cars drive-ability were greatly improved for me.

On the flip side, there is also a lot of BS out there that say tunes will damage your car, yet there hasn't been anyone that I have seen that can say with some kind of evidence to back it up, that a tune specifically led to problem X, Y, or Z. If there is, please let me know as it would be a deal breaker for many, including myself.

Bottom line...If you are not comfortable with tuning your car, then I wouldn't do it as well. If you don't have a dealership to take your car to that is mod friendly and may try to screw you, then I wouldn't want a tune on my car. Thankfully I don't have that problem

2011 GT premium/Auto Trans./Ford Racing 3.73 gear/Airaid Intake/Bama tunes/Koni STR-T/Steeda sport springs/Steeda UCA, LCA, and adjustable panhard bar/Borla Atak cat-back/Steeda 14" brake kit on front and 13" brake kit on rear wheels, UPR catch-can...
ready4-2011 is offline  
Rookie
 
JDelo111's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 2
 
I just found some Dyno numbers for ProCal. They are from Livernois Motrosports. According to the link below, it was done last week.

Don't know if this is old news or if it helps...

Ford Racing 2011 Mustang GT Performance Cal/Filter Dyno Results

2011 GT/Black/M6/Brembo pkg/ (Stock)
JDelo111 is offline  
Apprentice
 
BillAz5.0's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2010
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 210
 
Looks much more realistic to Ford claims.
BillAz5.0 is offline  
PONY Member
5.0L Member
 
white_stallion's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 956
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDelo111 View Post
I just found some Dyno numbers for ProCal. They are from Livernois Motrosports. According to the link below, it was done last week.

Don't know if this is old news or if it helps...

Ford Racing 2011 Mustang GT Performance Cal/Filter Dyno Results
This is a bit 'skewed' if you will. They started with lower octane gas (87) then went up to 93....plus he had mods...granted nothing huge...but check out this thread.

Dyno time and FRPP tune installed - The Mustang Source - Ford Mustang Forums

2011 5.0 Performance White Premuim 3.73 6spd manual HID Heated Seats bone stock (for now)
9/2010 build date
white_stallion is offline  
daddydGT
Guest
 
daddydGT's Avatar
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by ready4-2011 View Post
You make some valid points. I would be interested as well to see if putting in lower octane would damage the engine with a fixed octane tune. If fuel continues to climb and I want to lower the octane, I will just load a lower octane tune. It only takes a couple minutes to do. For now, I couldn't be more happy with my 91 octane tune. All aspects of the cars drive-ability were greatly improved for me.

On the flip side, there is also a lot of BS out there that say tunes will damage your car, yet there hasn't been anyone that I have seen that can say with some kind of evidence to back it up, that a tune specifically led to problem X, Y, or Z. If there is, please let me know as it would be a deal breaker for many, including myself.

Bottom line...If you are not comfortable with tuning your car, then I wouldn't do it as well. If you don't have a dealership to take your car to that is mod friendly and may try to screw you, then I wouldn't want a tune on my car. Thankfully I don't have that problem
How would they be tunes ruining cars already when they are 2011 mustangs an it's just barely 2011?? Lol I said wait like 5-10 years or 100,000-150,000kms then you will know that pushing your car hard with an aggressive tune will kill it early! Good luck even getting to 150,000kms without putting major money in the powertrain!
PONY Member
4.6L Member
S197 Member
 
zilla8's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 893
 
I've been modding Mustangs and every other car I've owned for the past 30 years with no premature failures from mods.

I race my cars and drive them hard but also use good parts and fluids and monitor things with a good set of gauges.

this has not changed with my new 5.0
I had a tune/CAI and exhaust since day 1 with no problems just a hard running car thats a blast to drive.

I've got over 12K on my car and I now have a Kenne Bell 2.8 blower with a custom dyno tune and it runs just fine on 91 pump gas with a conservative tune.

before the blower I ran 91 tunes from Brenspeed and BlowbyRacing
and they were spot on with a safe A/F ratio and my car made 406rwhp and 387rwtq so dont believe the stuff about canned tunes.

they are fine for just bolt on's as long as they are from a reputable tuner like Bama.Brenspeed,BBR etc

to be honest if I was worried about the warranty I would just leave the car stock and just do suspension or something simple like a drop in K&N

dont get me wrong I want my car to last a long time and it is my daily driver but It's been my experience over the years that modding a car in a careful well thought out manner will not by it self shorten the life of your car.

2011 Performance white base GT 6MT 3.73 gears(sold)
zilla8 is offline  
Apprentice
 
konablue5oh's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: Houston
Posts: 245
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icckart View Post
if you put a lower octane in I suspect you'll have the possibility of causing engine damage. If that's TRUE (again, none of the tuners will actually confirm or refute it - hey they all wanna sell you something - kinda bad for biz to tell you it might grenade your motor!) let's get the REAL story on what happens up front.
Your suspicions are true! Run the recommended octane and move on please.

If you run too low octane, the tune will pull timing but there is a limit. A N/A engine can take some pinging, but frequent or severe detonation will eventually damage your engine. Nobody has tested how fast their 93 race tune will destroy an engine running on 87 gas. So you wont get a better answer than that.

It was stated to limit to half throttle if you use too low octane. So if you run low and cant find 93 octane, you take just enough of whatever you can find and take it easy until you find the right stuff. You wont get any pinging when you drive easily so it wont harm the engine. Also, even if it pings a couple times you didnt damage your engine. It doesnt instantaneouly destruct.

The FRPP tune is 91 octane so I wouldnt get that one if you are concerned about your wallet and want to run 87. It may be better to use your $400 towards buying 93 oct gas for the weekends.

I've done some datalogging with a Bama tune and the data shows that the tune is sometimes pulling timing. And I dont hear any pinging. I cant say anything about the other vendors but I expect that this is representative for all the SCT based tunes.
Ford can blow smoke just as well as the smaller companies.

konablue5oh is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread

Tags
2011 mustang , bama , dyno , procal , results

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a VALID email address for yourself, otherwise you will not receive the necessary confirmation email needed to confirm, validate and activate your new AFM member account.

Failure to provide a VALID email address, will result in the cancellation of your new AFM member account registration.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1