My 2013 Boss' 1.5 month long "BBQ Ticking" Story - Page 5 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Originally Posted by pdmustgt View Post
The reasons and why are not set in stone it varies everyday on warranty replacing major parts like engine, transmission, rear end or expensive parts. 5.0 you have to be sure there's no problem would be take engine apart. Think about this what that guy says it's a tick could totally different noise. I've been there before chasing a noise that wasn't there it was something else.
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Sometimes it is LOL...


I have had vehicles with noise in dash squeak noise from plastic rubbing. But they don't notice engine has miss that's vibrating the truck causing it LOL. What I was meaning by guy saying its a tick what one person hears is different from what another person hears.

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Got some info on a possible cause for the knocking issue. Now this is not in all cases, but it is in most I guess. Ford is calling it cylinder distortion. To put it simply the piston is rocking ever so slightly inside the bore. Now is it a machining problem or bad pistons who knows. Ford does say and of course they would say this. That it will not harm engine life to have the noise, but that excessive noise should be look at asap! Their fix replace the block, the short block that is. On very loud engines that aluminium is being found during oil analyses, is do to the piston wearing excessively. Some where saying is the main bearings, but that just didn't make sense to me. Is this the true findings I don't know but, it came from a ford tech who's name I will not disclose.
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Cylinder distortion comes from went heads are torqued head bolts are pulling on the block. One reason why they use long bolts so it's in bulk head (main bearing area strongest part of the block) keeping distortion to min. Hint reason for for torq plates when they hone the block like old smallblock where head bolts in upper part of the block. Actually machining problem I doubt it could it be from when block casting was pore. Could be weak area in the block because poring for alum blocks it cools very fast needs to flow into every area of mold. Iron blocks are far easier to cast than alum blocks.

Wet liner blocks don't really have this issue but currently cummins ISX15 having issue with what they call lobing on the liner. Highly polished area all way around the liner 1/4-1/2 wide also caused by carbon packing from top ring to crown. Few engine are doing this not every engine and uses oil from this.
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I am not knowledgeable enough to know the ins and outs here, however, I find it interesting that the BBQ tick is showing up in the Boss engines and GTs, and many components in each are different, ie forged and not forged.

We know the tick is showing up in the GTs, and this includes the older model engines with the oil squirters, as well as the engines where the pistons are now coated with no oil squirters.

So there seems to be a common thread running through here.
Block or bearings makes a lot a sense to me.

But I am not an engineer or a mechanic, just using logic from observing what I read here.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IceBlue View Post
I am not knowledgeable enough to know the ins and outs here, however, I find it interesting that the BBQ tick is showing up in the Boss engines and GTs, and many components in each are different, ie forged and not forged.

We know the tick is showing up in the GTs, and this includes the older model engines with the oil squirters, as well as the engines where the pistons are now coated with no oil squirters.

So there seems to be a common thread running through here.
Block or bearings makes a lot a sense to me.

But I am not an engineer or a mechanic, just using logic from observing what I read here.
Internally the Gt engine and the boss engine are the same. Same poistons, crank block heads. With the difference being exhaust cams, and the intake system. The oil squirters are only but I could be wrong on the F150 engines to help minimize detonation during heavy towing. The knocking or ticking issue is also pleuged the F150 engines. Its a modular engine issue, doesn't discriminate according to the flavor of car.
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Never seen pistons cause high count of alum in oil unless there scuffed. If there was distortion in cyl wouldn't cause piston slap, tick, high alum in the oil but just high oil usage because rings cannot seal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasttoyo View Post
So why do the bearings appear to be most heavily worn in discrete bands rather than more uniformly?


I have no idea what 'BBQ' means here, except that it can't be anything I'd ever want to eat.


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Do you know what worn bearing is and what makes this worn out?


That outer coating is dry film for 1st start up it's barely .0005 thick.


So many think if there slight mark on the bearings there JUNK that's the problem when it's not.
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Quote:
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Internally the Gt engine and the boss engine are the same. Same poistons, crank block heads. With the difference being exhaust cams, and the intake system. The oil squirters are only but I could be wrong on the F150 engines to help minimize detonation during heavy towing. The knocking or ticking issue is also pleuged the F150 engines. Its a modular engine issue, doesn't discriminate according to the flavor of car.
Internally the GT engine and boss engine ARE NOT THE SAME! Different pistons and connecting rods for sure.
2011 Ford Mustang 302 - Inside The Boss - 5.0 Mustang Magazine - View All Page

And yes some coyote/5.0 motors did have the oil squirters.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdmustgt View Post
Do you know what worn bearing is and what makes this worn out?


That outer coating is dry film for 1st start up it's barely .0005 thick.


So many think if there slight mark on the bearings there JUNK that's the problem when it's not.

I agree that the pics of these bearings are not that bad. Really not enough that would cause an audible knocking noise.

After college I use to work with a reputable Road Race engine builder that specialized in GM LT5 DOHC V8 engines as well other endurance engines.

I remember the first time he had me "scotch brite" brand new bearings to remove the dry film overlay and what was left was a shiny aluminum bearing which had slight shadowing of the grooves like seen in the pics. They were not glass smooth like the dull grey overlay made them seem, and we would be able to see the actual defects in any bearings before they were ever installed.

We would then take all the freshly cleaned and scotch brited bearings and mix n match bearing halves to get different clearance numbers. That experience opened my eyes on how real blueprinted endurance engines were built with so much attention to detail.

I really bet the OP engine was a victim of something in the wrist pin or cylinder distortion, but was easier for the Ford dealer to get approved a replacement short block based on claiming scored bearings and debris found.

In any case, they got the issue solved, but still leaves a mystery of what the real root of the problem is.

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I agree that the pics of these bearings are not that bad. Really not enough that would cause an audible knocking noise.

After college I use to work with a reputable Road Race engine builder that specialized in GM LT5 DOHC V8 engines as well other endurance engines.

I remember the first time he had me "scotch brite" brand new bearings to remove the dry film overlay and what was left was a shiny aluminum bearing which had slight shadowing of the grooves like seen in the pics. They were not glass smooth like the dull grey overlay made them seem, and we would be able to see the actual defects in any bearings before they were ever installed.

We would then take all the freshly cleaned and scotch brited bearings and mix n match bearing halves to get different clearance numbers. That experience opened my eyes on how real blueprinted endurance engines were built with so much attention to detail.

I really bet the OP engine was a victim of something in the wrist pin or cylinder distortion, but was easier for the Ford dealer to get approved a replacement short block based on claiming scored bearings and debris found.

In any case, they got the issue solved, but still leaves a mystery of what the real root of the problem is.
Bingo! Your absolutely correct, those bearings are normal. Engine do have and will always have a dry start to some degree, and thats exactly whats being depicted with the bearings in the pic. I truly wish a Ford trouble shooter would shine in with their rundown test and what their seeing. A cylinder load test tells you so much, and might give areas to look at. But no one has given such test results. I got a buddy of mine to look at the bottom end of my engine with the oil pan removed, and did a bit of investigation. As he says the engine is clean. Cylinders still have the crosshatch marks from the factory and no scuffing can be found on the cylinder walls which would indicate piston to wall issue or rings even. End play is great within specs and the rods feel good. His concern is the wrist pins or a single wrist pin that is . Either to the piston or to the rod having a bit too much clearance. Piston slap but as he indicated it wouldn't be just one single slap, it would be multiple. The sound is singular and not consistent or kind of harmonic in a sense. Not rhythm sort of speak. If it was consistent or rhythmical it would give a better indication of what it maybe. The sound is making is puzzling to conclude.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMDmustang13 View Post
Internally the GT engine and boss engine ARE NOT THE SAME! Different pistons and connecting rods for sure.
2011 Ford Mustang 302 - Inside The Boss - 5.0 Mustang Magazine - View All Page

And yes some coyote/5.0 motors did have the oil squirters.
Thanks for the info on the boss - I thought they were basically the same engine except for the intake - clearly they have significant differences.

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Being adamant is the key here. If a dealership says it's normal, just say "OK, find me a used 201x GT on your lot, and I want you to take test drive with it right now to prove that it's normal".... Go for the test drive and listen. If same noise isn't there, it's NOT normal. Try 2 more used GTs just to make sure.

Also ask them if they'd sell a used car making that same noise, or offer top-dollar on a trade in if it had that noise..... because it's "normal". Try doing a trade and say that when they question the noise at trade-in time. See what they say THEN.
That's the key point right there! It's a one way street with these dealerships.

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Every engine I've heard that later turned out to have a crank or rod bearing problem made a fairly regular heavy thunk or knock that follows engine speed, not something you'd describe as a 'tick". You will also often have a low oil pressure situation due to excessive clearance.

The audio posts I've heard of the BBQ ignitor-like tick sound lighter, without a sense of mass and are much more irregular that the rod/crank knocks I've heard. There was another post (I think on another forum) where this tick was allegedly traced definitively to a scored cylinder wall. Both main bearing and piston / cylinder work involve a lot of disassembly, so another cause cannot be discounted.


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