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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-15-2015 Thread Starter
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X pipe help

Hello, I am a new mustang owner and new member to this forum. I recently got a 2014 mustang 5.0 which came with Roush axle back exhaust when I got it. I would like to get an X pipe but I am wondering which one adds some performance(if any) and which one in your opinion sounds best with the Roush axlebacks. Also, I would like to get an after cat x pipe since it's my daily and at the moment there would be no reason for no cats. Thanks!

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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015
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From what I've read supposedly an x pipe will give you better flow and more performance gains over an h pipe. I installed a full 3" catback with an x pipe and yes it did seem to let the car breath better but it's force induced also. Before then I had roush axlebacks and the remainder was stock exhaust. I'm sure overall the sound with the roush would change with an x pipe but I don't imagine it would be a huge performance increase. IMO maybe 2-5 hp if even that. I found the roush could be raspy and loud. I did like them though. If anything I imagine the x would make them a bit louder and maybe louder. I'm thinking deeper if anything. Either way I'm sure it sounds nice already.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015
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I've run my 2014 GT with the Roush axle back, both with the factory H pipe and the Pypes after-cat X pipe. I ended up having an issue with exhaust leaks with the Pypes piece, which I sent back to them and they are in the process of replacing. From the time the X-pipe was on the car with the Roush mufflers, I noticed the following:

- Smoother idle, slightly lower volume compared to the factory H pipe. The factory H has a "trumpety" sound to it where you can distinctively hear each exhaust pulse at idle. With the X pipe, it is a much softer, smoother sound at idle with a slight decrease in volume.
- Sounds similar to the H pipe under 2500 RPM. Above 2500 RPM, the exhaust tone changes to a higher pitch, raspy howl. It's all personal preference on the X vs H, whether you want a touring car sound or a muscle car sound, but I personally loved the sound of the X pipe/Roush combo. I wouldn't say it was any louder, just a completely different tone.
- Felt a little "freer" in the mid range, but I haven't dynoed it so see if there was actually any change or not.
- It seemed to eliminate the slight amount of drone I had with the factory H-pipe and Roush mufflers on the highway.
- About a 50% reduction in the exhaust pops and crackles when downshifting/slowing down

I went with the Pypes unit because it was the least expensive and stainless steel, but ended up with fitment issues. The BBK after-cat X-pipe is pretty close to the same price and has decent reviews. As long as stainless steel isn't a priority, that may be an option.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-16-2015
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Originally Posted by TheJMan48 View Post
I've run my 2014 GT with the Roush axle back, both with the factory H pipe and the Pypes after-cat X pipe. I ended up having an issue with exhaust leaks with the Pypes piece, which I sent back to them and they are in the process of replacing. From the time the X-pipe was on the car with the Roush mufflers, I noticed the following:

- Smoother idle, slightly lower volume compared to the factory H pipe. The factory H has a "trumpety" sound to it where you can distinctively hear each exhaust pulse at idle. With the X pipe, it is a much softer, smoother sound at idle with a slight decrease in volume.
- Sounds similar to the H pipe under 2500 RPM. Above 2500 RPM, the exhaust tone changes to a higher pitch, raspy howl. It's all personal preference on the X vs H, whether you want a touring car sound or a muscle car sound, but I personally loved the sound of the X pipe/Roush combo. I wouldn't say it was any louder, just a completely different tone.
- Felt a little "freer" in the mid range, but I haven't dynoed it so see if there was actually any change or not.
- It seemed to eliminate the slight amount of drone I had with the factory H-pipe and Roush mufflers on the highway.
- About a 50% reduction in the exhaust pops and crackles when downshifting/slowing down

I went with the Pypes unit because it was the least expensive and stainless steel, but ended up with fitment issues. The BBK after-cat X-pipe is pretty close to the same price and has decent reviews. As long as stainless steel isn't a priority, that may be an option.
I can agree with all of the above. I went with a bassani after cat X. Overall, I noticed a more premium sound, with a big reduction in crackles and pops. I disliked that part of it, so I removed the resonators and it all came back, with more volume. If you run roushs with the stock h and no resonators, you will hate life, so the X with no resonators is the perfect, nasty balance! The raspiness above 4000 is much reduced as well.

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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-20-2015
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You'll have exhaust leaks with most aftermarket x pipes, I've tried both magnaflow and bassani.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-21-2015
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You'll have exhaust leaks with most aftermarket x pipes, I've tried both magnaflow and bassani.
Why would this be true? It all depends on the manufacturer as well as who installs it. If you self install and don't seat the couplings properly, yes, you'll have exhaust leak. I've had a pypes x-pipe since I purchased my car 3 years ago, both O/R, one prior to LT's and one After LT's, Never once have I had an exhaust leak. OP, It all depends on what you want in the end, I normally am one to say, that the more expensive car accessories do offer more, however, in some cases spending hundreds extra on a name isn't necessary, an X-pipe is that case. Just my 2 Cents.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-23-2015
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The angles that come off the cats aren't a perfect 90 degree, hard for the aftermarket folks to make a perfect fit piece. The factory piece has the flex pipe in the h-pipe for this reason. Factor in manufacturing variations on both ends and wahla, exhaust leaks. Granted they disappear after the pipes heat up and expand, but I don't like startup leaks...
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-23-2015
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Originally Posted by Stango123 View Post
From what I've read supposedly an x pipe will give you better flow and more performance gains over an h pipe.

Better gains with the back-pressure offered by the X-pipe, ideal for those running without Cats. However the H-pipe offers better/equalized flow, as long as the mid-connector pipe is open.
Also depending on what your exhaust/exit setup is, one can be more practical than the other.


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Last edited by GT500MUSTANGFAN; 09-23-2015 at 05:34 PM.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015
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Hi, I have a Borla S exhaust what will be the best x pipe or H pipe power wise and tone wise?
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Hi, I have a Borla S exhaust what will be the best x pipe or H pipe power wise and tone wise?
If you have the S-Type catback, it already comes with an X-pipe. If you have just the S-type axle back kit, then an after-cat midpipe really just comes down to personal preference. Power wise, I don't think you'd notice much of a difference between the X-pipe or the H-pipe. IMO the real benefit of an after-cat mid pipe is that it removes the factory H-pipe's neckdown from 2.75" to what appears to be 2.25". Keeping the same 2.75" diameter throughout the entire midpipe will certainly help flow.

As for sound, it's all personal preference. I personally like the raspier sound from an X-pipe but others like the muscular H-pipe rumble. Your call on that one.

Last edited by TheJMan48; 10-06-2015 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Fixed spelling error
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An X-Pipe will make the car a bit more raspy/higher pitched, its hard to explain over text but that is the best way I can put it. I would say 3 out of 4 customers choose an H-Pipe which is what the car comes with from the factory. Technically speaking, an X-Pipe will produce about 5 more ft. lbs. which is very hard to even measure pull after pull. So if you are looking to squeeze every inch of HP out of the car then go with the X. They still sound good!
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Originally Posted by GT500MUSTANGFAN View Post
Better gains with the back-pressure offered by the X-pipe, ideal for those running without Cats. However the H-pipe offers better/equalized flow, as long as the mid-connector pipe is open.
Actually, it's the other way around.

The reason that the X does a better job of equalizing flow is because the crossover paths are far 'gentler' in the X and offer less restriction to the crossing flows. This is most important during those brief periods when you've got two cylinders in the same bank firing in sequence and that side's pipe sees a peak total flow that's maybe 25% higher than either cylinder's own peak flow.

The difference isn't huge, but it's there. And FWIW, an X manages to eke out a little more power than an H or straight duals when you're stuck with relatively restrictive mufflers.


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Actually, it's the other way around.

The reason that the X does a better job of equalizing flow is because the crossover paths are far 'gentler' in the X and offer less restriction to the crossing flows.

Norm
I've tested both, there is no "Crossing Flow" on an H-Pipe. It's a straight connection pipe to either side that allows flow to balance as needed. The X-Pipe's converge point leads to back pressure that doesn't allow the exhaust to balance freely, thus imbalance is more of a possibility. The X-Pipe's converge point "Forces" the flows to meet, the H-Pipe's connector "Allows" it, so saying the X-Pipe is 'gentler' isn't true all all. It's why H-Pipes are great for those that run on the track & generally spend most of the time at higher speeds, balanced/quicker/easier exhaust flow. However X-Pipes have that back pressure which is ideal for low end applications, such as from a stop. Amercainmuscle has their description backwards, they claim H-Pipes are better suited for low end.


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I've tested both, there is no "Crossing Flow" on an H-Pipe. It's a straight connection pipe to either side that allows flow to balance as needed.
If there is no crossing flow you are losing all of the benefit of having both mufflers share the total peak flow (which as I said before is larger than any single cylinder's peak flow). Even a brief reduction in flow resistance contributes to a slight power increase. We aren't talking about any big increase here, probably just a handful of HP and ft-lbs.


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The X-Pipe's converge point leads to back pressure that doesn't allow the exhaust to balance freely, thus imbalance is more of a possibility. The X-Pipe's converge point "Forces" the flows to meet, the H-Pipe's connector "Allows" it, so saying the X-Pipe is 'gentler' isn't true all all.

I can't think of a better word to describe how much better the small direction changes in an X are than the two sharp, right-angle turns that flow across an H must make. And you have to have some flow across the H if you're going to get any backpressure reductions from it.


If you cannot share the total flow between your two mufflers, there will be two brief periods where this flow might instantaneously be 40% higher (due to the firing order). If you force that flow to mostly go through only one muffler, its backpressure would briefly be nearly double the peak backpressure at other times. Share it equally and that peak backpressure drops down to about half (and all of the single-cylinder peaks will lose some backpressure as well). Even though this occurs over only two parts of the 720 complete cycle, it's there to be taken advantage of. You do have to be thinking on a millisecond time frame level here.


Quote:
It's why H-Pipes are great for those that run on the track & generally spend most of the time at higher speeds, balanced/quicker/easier exhaust flow. However X-Pipes have that back pressure which is ideal for low end applications, such as from a stop. Amercainmuscle has their description backwards, they claim H-Pipes are better suited for low end.

I know what an 'H' is. It does balance the pressure spikes (sort of). But that's not quite the same thing as equalizing flow, and you can hear the difference between straight duals, H, and X.. Partially equalizing the spikes takes some of the harshness out of the exhaust tone - damps the rumble a little, while equalizing the flow eliminates virtually all of the choppy low frequency rumble that is characteristic of crossplane V8 engines.


An X would only result in the extra restriction you speak of if the piping length where the flows are merged is not large enough in terms of total inside area. Sure, you can design a bad X just like you can design a bad H, with either one using tubing that's too small for the job. But let's at least assume that everybody knows how to do a good job here, and not credit the H guys for using full-diameter pipe for theirs while claiming that the X guys aren't sharp enough to go bigger through the merge, OK? My guess, 20% or a little bigger diameter through the X for a big single pipe or pairs of exhaust line diameter pipes that do not overlap too much with the dividing portions of the walls removed is in the ballpark.


Just so you know, I worked up a very unique X-type of crossover for a very specific set of circumstances. Gentle bends going in and out and everything. Being somewhat familiar with fluid flow topics (I was employed as an engineer working with piping systems for most of my career - now retired), I just borrowed some of the tech I had to understand on the job to my build.


Just because . . . the cylinder numbering happens to be for a SBC but the plots end up the same






Norm

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