E85 and injectors - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016 Thread Starter
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E85 and injectors

I have a 14 GT and I am just wondering if anyone on here is using E85 and what injectors your using? I am in the process of buying a new Cobra Jet intake to go with Stage3 cams and am trying to figure out what advantage I would get by going E85. Also can you switch back and forth between fuels. I do know that the E85 will break down the insides of the stock injectors. Looking forward to hearing something soon.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016
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In regards to the advantages. E85 is over 100 octane. Great for boosted applications or high compression engines.

E85 requires several changes to implement. There are articles out there on what is required. I would do a search for those because its more than just changing injectors.

As far as changing back and forth, you can do it, but it requires you to disconnect your fuel lines and use a switch/relay to activate the fuel pump and pump out all the old fuel before putting in the other type of fuel.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-07-2016
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Are you talking straight e85? You will need 47 lb injects plus tuning. Gains 8-12 whp avg tops over good 93 tune.

True summer blend e85 is supposed to be 105 octane. 30% reduction in mpg btw on corn.

I just run an additive on top of 93 clear non ethanol myself. Gives me 100 octane plus whenever I want it to run it on my 100 octane tune.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016
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I switched my talon over to E85 and ran it that way for years. I could run any mix of e85 and pump gas I wanted. I had tuning software that connected my car to a laptop and all I had to do was adjust the global fuel scale to keep the fuel trims set properly. I am new to modifying mustangs so I don't know how many different parameters each different tuning setup can control.

E85 where I live is actually e70. The air to fuel ratio for ethanol is dramatically different from gasoline. You will need to increase your fuel injector size dramatically. For example a 43 lb injector on pump gas is roughly equivalent to a 65 lb injector running e85. You also need to have a fuel pump that can flow a much higher volume of fuel. I don't know the limits of a stock mustang fuel pump.

I liked e85 a lot more than race fuel. It is dramatically cheaper than race fuel, makes more power, and it is highly knock resistant. Ethanol has a lot less energy per unit volume than gas, but since you are injecting a lot more of it you make more power.

If your fuel pump and injectors are e85 compatible there is no need to switch them out. On my talon I ran e85 on a walbro 255hp fuel that wasn't designed for e85 without any troubles (there is a long story behind the wal bro pumps). My injectors were also not designed for e85, but had no problems running it. Since a lot of factory vehicles have ran e85 in the last decade I wonder how many vehicle fuel systems could run it without a problem... I wonder if the s197 fuel system will not be harmed by e85... I honestly don't know.

The only problem with e85 is that out West it is not as readily available for a daily driven car as it once was. I absolutely love e85 and not once did I regret switching over to it. It was a lot easier for me to tune my car on e85.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016
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Theoretically on my talon you could literally drain out pump gas (assuming this is what you had tuned for), put in injectors that run 50% more fuel, refill the tank with e85 (real e85, not e70) and be good to go without making any tuning changes. Again, I am still learning about mustangs and I have no idea if a stock fuel system will be damaged by e85. Like others have mentioned it depends on what type of rubber is ran in the fuel system.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016
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I am actually looking into switching to e85 myself. You should not need to swap between 2 different tunes. All you need to do is enable flex fuel in your tune and make sure your flex fuel tables are fill in appropriately. From here you will be able to run what ever percentage of E you want. Larger injectors may be needed since you are doing the CJ manifold. But once you dial in the injectors the car's ECM will handle the rest.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-09-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jn2_ View Post
I am actually looking into switching to e85 myself. You should not need to swap between 2 different tunes. All you need to do is enable flex fuel in your tune and make sure your flex fuel tables are fill in appropriately. From here you will be able to run what ever percentage of E you want. Larger injectors may be needed since you are doing the CJ manifold. But once you dial in the injectors the car's ECM will handle the rest.
+1
Flex fuel tables are in the PCM. However, they may not be completely populated and are not enabled from the factory. HP Tuners is currently adding the capability to enable Flex Fuel operation.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016
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Ford runs a sensor on flex fuel vehicles to interpret the amount of ethanol in the fuel. I doubt that you could just enable a fuel table in a non flex fuel vehicle and run e85 because the PCM will have no clue what's going on with the fuel. I run e85 in my 97 v6 mustang but it has had a tune made for it and I cannot run regular gas without reflashing a different tune into the PCM
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016
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Originally Posted by Pbaker1921 View Post
I doubt that you could just enable a fuel table in a non flex fuel vehicle and run e85 because the PCM will have no clue what's going on with the fuel.
That's why the appropriate tables have to be populated and they are being defined in their software. The tables are in many of the strategies though.


My understanding is that ethanol content is inferred on modern Fords.
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Yeah it can be done for sure, but unless you need the extra octane for something like higher compression/cylinder pressures I don't really think it would be worth doing... E85 smells bad and is very inconsistent from the pump anyways. The power gain from pump e85 which is usually only really e70 probably wouldn't be worth money spent to have it tuned to run on it.
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From my understanding tuners are using the o2 censors for calibration on the flex fuel tunes. Working in conjunction with the fuel level and telling the system to read o2 inputs after a fill-up for a specific amount of time...

Or something to that affect..
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Originally Posted by baggyp View Post
From my understanding tuners are using the o2 censors for calibration on the flex fuel tunes. Working in conjunction with the fuel level and telling the system to read o2 inputs after a fill-up for a specific amount of time...

Or something to that affect..
Yes, if there is a 10% change in fuel level(or less if you change it), the car will recheck it's E percentage based on how much fuel is needed to achieve lambda 1.

Update to HPTuners v3.0 and the flex fuel tables will be there. You can use the tables from the F150 coyote to start with. Just be sure to check all your flex fuel tables to be sure they are okay.
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I have the lund flex tune. You'll need the LU-47 injectors and his or AED flex tune. You'll have to datalog on reg 93-91 octane. Might revise it 2-3 times. Then get it close to empty. Fill with e85. About 10-15 mins of driving you will see a difference on your afr's. That's when your ecm has adjusted to the e85. Then send another wot datalog on e85 to see if an adjust needs to be made. With the flex fuel you can mix gas n corn with no issues. Mpg will drop though. The tune goes off your factory wideband. Adjust as it senses it. Your knock sensors will keep adding timing till it senses a knock and will adjust. It will make more power vs 93 octane.
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