Where do HP numbers advertised by aftermarket websties come from? - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016 Thread Starter
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Where do HP numbers advertised by aftermarket websties come from?

Where do HP numbers advertised by aftermarket websties come from?

*This thread could go somewhere else, but "2011 - 2014 Mustang GT Tech" area was my best guess as the part in example is for a 2011-2014, but if there is a better area then please move it there. Thanks*

So just as the title asks where do aftermarket websties get the HP data they use from?

SPECIAL NOTE: I am in no way trying to bash AM or call them out. Just I use AM for my aftermarket needs and that is where I saw the below.

For example:
Boss 302 intake on AM
Ford Racing BOSS 302 Mustang Intake Manifold M-9424-M50BR (11-14 GT) - Free Shipping

AM claims on their site in the: "DESCRIPTION: Gain Up to 61 RWHP. Bolt on up to 61 RWHP and 43 ft-lb torque with the Ford Racing BOSS 302 Manifold. We Dyno tested this system in house on our stock 2011 GT with just a JLT cold air intake, so you can be confident you'll see real gains from this manifold. This manifold is the perfect starting point for your list of power mods - especially if you plan on going forced induction."

Now my question:
I find this odd as I own a 2013 Boss 302 and there are numerous other motor HP adding mods such as forged internals and etc that turn the 2013 GT with the Coyote into the 2013 Boss with the Roadrunner motor. Yet Ford advertises the 2013 GT at 420hp and the 2013 Boss at 444hp. So that is only a 24hp difference between the two... So I am very confused on how the Boss 302 intake sold on AM can bolt onto a 2013 GT and add 61 hp to it as that would be adding 37 more horsepower to the GT than it added on the factory built Boss motor...

Can someone help me understand?


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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016
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Think Tune + Parts with a side order of salesmanship. It you were to tune your BOSS, you'd gain about 20-30 extra ponies probably.



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The same place that any other marketing material comes from . . . .

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Quote:
Originally Posted by crjackson2134 View Post
Think Tune + Parts with a side order of salesmanship. It you were to tune your BOSS, you'd gain about 20-30 extra ponies probably.
Yeah I thought about the tune, but that is a lot out of just adding the Boss intake and a tune as I am sure the actual Bosses have a tune and I know they have more HP adders factory so idk... I mean we are talking a bout a 37hp difference. haha I mean I am assuming the Boss could be advertised underrated like the Z06's are... Haven't seen a dyno chart on a stock Boss and haven't gotten mine on a dyno yet due to I am to busy addressing issues that we have talked about. haha

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Originally Posted by JBert View Post
The same place that any other marketing material comes from . . . .
haha Where do the other "marketing materials" come from? All out of the air or maybe more like @crjackson2134 said "salesmanship". haha

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(I have owned a few non Mustang cars over the years as well, but always try to have a Mustang with it or come quickly back to a Mustang!)
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016
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It's not implausible at all when you consider 5% variances between engines, variances between dynos, BHP vs WHP calculations, testing temps and RPM at which the measurement was taken and the specific car they used for testing.

But yeah, on the street... That does seem a bit much...


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Last edited by crjackson2134; 03-10-2016 at 03:34 PM.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016
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Maximum gains aren't always advertised as gains at the peak of the power curve. They can be advertised as the largest gain at any point in the curve.

When tuning for the Boss 302 intake manifold the rev limit is usually extended to 7500-7600 RPM. The factory rev limit for base GT engine is well below that. The RPM limit can be extended out using the OEM intake manifold but power will be falling off where the Boss 302 manifold is still able to make power.

This means that the OEM intake and factory tuning might make 375hp at 7300 RPM but the Boss manifold and aftermarket tuning might be making 435hp at that RPM. That's 60 hp, however it is "only" 15hp above the factory rating for the engine.

Not every place does this, but many do. Big numbers sell.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangLife View Post
. . . out of the air? . . .
I was thinking of a slightly smellier place, LOL
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016
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Notice the wording does not say *peak* gains. It just says gains...that could be anywhere in the power curve....the devil is in the details.

Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

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I guess that is what I don't understand is the difference in peak, gain in the curve, and how the factory rating is figured and how all 3 differ.

Can somebody explain/break that down for me?

Current Garage
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Past Mustangs in order and color of text.
(1.)2000, (2.)2004, (3.)2006GT/Auto traded for (4.)2006GT/Manual, (5.)1996, (6.)2011GT, (7.)2003GT, (8.)2006GT, (9)2013 Boss 302, and (10.) 2002GT
(I have owned a few non Mustang cars over the years as well, but always try to have a Mustang with it or come quickly back to a Mustang!)
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Peak power is highest point in the curve, gain in power is the highest gain in HP anywhere in the curve when comparing pulls after mods.

Factory power, first of all, is rated at the flywheel and is PEAK power. So the Boss has 444hp PEAK at the flywheel...take out 12-15% and that is roughly the power at the wheels.

Hope this helps.

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And all that is what I said, yet not as eloquently. RPM at which measurement was taken. Salesmanship plain and simple... It's not untrue, it's just all about where the numbers are measured. That, and there are some usable gains to be had if implemented correctly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR2006 View Post
Peak power is highest point in the curve, gain in power is the highest gain in HP anywhere in the curve when comparing pulls after mods.

Factory power, first of all, is rated at the flywheel and is PEAK power. So the Boss has 444hp PEAK at the flywheel...take out 12-15% and that is roughly the power at the wheels.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for explaining. I forgot about that. The factory 444 is crank where in the AM description they are claiming 60+ wheel HP so that makes the difference larger, but I guess since they are saying in the 60+ hp gain is across the curve and not the actual PEAK. Still a little confused, but I am starting to get it. haha

Current Garage
(11.)2012 GT500 silver with red stripe, SVT performance package, and Recaro seats.
2018 Honda Civic Type R
Past Mustangs in order and color of text.
(1.)2000, (2.)2004, (3.)2006GT/Auto traded for (4.)2006GT/Manual, (5.)1996, (6.)2011GT, (7.)2003GT, (8.)2006GT, (9)2013 Boss 302, and (10.) 2002GT
(I have owned a few non Mustang cars over the years as well, but always try to have a Mustang with it or come quickly back to a Mustang!)
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The marketing dept.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustangLife View Post
Thanks for explaining. I forgot about that. The factory 444 is crank where in the AM description they are claiming 60+ wheel HP so that makes the difference larger, but I guess since they are saying in the 60+ hp gain is across the curve and not the actual PEAK. Still a little confused, but I am starting to get it. haha
Again, it may not be 60+ across the whole powerband...but the highest gain between the pre-mod pull and post-mod pull was 60hp at a certain rpm...could have at 3500rpm, 4500 rpm, 2500 rpm...the marketing and advertising does not state it becuase all 'we' as consumers want to see is "60+HP" (or so they think)....most consumers will equate that to PEAK gain and that's what the advertisers want us to equate it to.

AND, I want to add...adding more AREA under the dyno curve increases your AVG horsepower which is a GOOD thing. It's not all about the Peak increase. We are too prone to concentrate on the peak power number when we only spend a fraction of the time at that peak RPM/HP. Area under the curve is VERY important.

Another thing to keep in mind, when they say "PEAK Gain" really they mean the highest gain between the before and after at any given RPM (again could be at 3500rpm, 2500rpm, etc...). I'll say it again...the devil is in the details...or wording

Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR2006 View Post
Again, it may not be 60+ across the whole powerband...but the highest gain between the pre-mod pull and post-mod pull was 60hp at a certain rpm...could have at 3500rpm, 4500 rpm, 2500 rpm...the marketing and advertising does not state it becuase all 'we' as consumers want to see is "60+HP" (or so they think)....most consumers will equate that to PEAK gain and that's what the advertisers want us to equate it to.

AND, I want to add...adding more AREA under the dyno curve increases your AVG horsepower which is a GOOD thing. It's not all about the Peak increase. We are too prone to concentrate on the peak power number when we only spend a fraction of the time at that peak RPM/HP. Area under the curve is VERY important.

Another thing to keep in mind, when they say "PEAK Gain" really they mean the highest gain between the before and after at any given RPM (again could be at 3500rpm, 2500rpm, etc...). I'll say it again...the devil is in the details...or wording
I think I understand it all now. Thanks for the details, information, and explanations.


Current Garage
(11.)2012 GT500 silver with red stripe, SVT performance package, and Recaro seats.
2018 Honda Civic Type R
Past Mustangs in order and color of text.
(1.)2000, (2.)2004, (3.)2006GT/Auto traded for (4.)2006GT/Manual, (5.)1996, (6.)2011GT, (7.)2003GT, (8.)2006GT, (9)2013 Boss 302, and (10.) 2002GT
(I have owned a few non Mustang cars over the years as well, but always try to have a Mustang with it or come quickly back to a Mustang!)
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