Have Tuning #'s ever been so confusing? - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-04-2010 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AMChrisRose View Post
Both dyno and track have variables, if we get technical.

I think that if you go with any established company, there's going to be good results. Most companies can't afford to be shipping out junk without running into problems real fast.

We'll have more information in the December issue (on sale just before halloween) of MM&FF!

Track numbers, dyno numbers, etc!

The results are awesome!
Halloween? We want #'s now so we can decide who to purchase from. Halloween my car is ready to take a nap. You can not tell us the track improvements? From 13 to what? You guys are losing a lot of money to the guys with #'s a;ready for some article coming out near winter.


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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-04-2010 Thread Starter
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My 2 cents...

any tuner that uses 87 octane as "before" and 91 or 93 octane as "after" should be permanently banned.
Plus its crazy that every car out of the dozen you tune has 87 in it? So everyone brought their car to the tuner went right from the lot and never have put gas in it since. All about the cash my friend. Bigger #'s bigger sales. Who wants to see 10-20 rwhp gains? 30-40 sells more tunes. Look at JLT,AM and VMP. JLT and AM 20-25rwhp with tune/CAI. VMP 10-20 rwhp with tune only. You tell me only a couple tuners can unlock the true secret of the 5.0 and gain 30-30rwhp?


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Originally Posted by GeorgeInNePa View Post
Track numbers are all that matter.
What does the track number prove? I could take my car to a track that air temp is in the mid 60's, grip is perfect, air quality is perfect and pick up 2 tenths or more over a guy who has the same car and is in the Midwest with 95* heat, 90% humidity and a greasy heat soaked track.

If you worried about the numbers dont be. The car makes 100 more horse power then last year, whats not to like? Its only gonna make more power as we go.
Be like the rest of us and jump in and get your feet wet. Hell I dont mind being the guinea pig.

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Personally, I am waiting until they start testing on cars with some miles on them to get true readings. I suspect that even though a break-in may not be required for ring seating, etc., as the engine is driven longer, the computer learns how to make more power...

p.s. I couldn't wait to run out the tank of 87 the dealer gave me so I could get some Shell 91 in there...that alone made a huge difference in how the car's power felt (nothing official). Any tuning company that doesn't provide pre and post tuning at each octane level will never get my business...
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That's why we are using 93 octane on all of our results, both before and after.

With a CAI/Tune we picked up 22RWHP and 31RWTQ. YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS PEAK GAINS, HONEST NUMBERS AT THE TOP POINT OF HP AND THE TOP POINT OF TQ.

Other companies are measuring THROUGH THE CURVE, which we picked up as much as 28RWHP and 34RWTQ.

We give real-world results.

We just picked up 19RWHP with an X-Pipe and Catback, which you'll read about soon.

For those wanting to know how we did at the track, I can't give a way too much, but lets just say we drop seconds! Thats all I can say.

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Thanks Chris! But how about some real world numbers for 87-87, 89-89, and 91-91? I realized it's more work, but I think a lot of us can't get 93...and would be interested in honest numbers for the other octanes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11CaliSpecGT View Post
Thanks Chris! But how about some real world numbers for 87-87, 89-89, and 91-91? I realized it's more work, but I think a lot of us can't get 93...and would be interested in honest numbers for the other octanes.
We can do 91, but logistically for us all of that would be really redundant.

You can take off a few horsepower for each degree of timing, and by the time you hit 87 octane, you've probably lost 15RWHP or so in our case?

Again, with our car running down the track, we're not going to experiment with 87 octane. I wouldn't run 87 octane in my cars, personally. Especially not any in the area, as I've found it hard to find "good" quality 87.

89 I feel a little better about, but the difference between that and 87 isn't much at all.

91 octane is worth testing for the west coast customers, but again... take 4-5RWHP off of what you see and you're very close to what we'll find.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RTRBURN View Post
What does the track number prove? I could take my car to a track that air temp is in the mid 60's, grip is perfect, air quality is perfect and pick up 2 tenths or more over a guy who has the same car and is in the Midwest with 95* heat, 90% humidity and a greasy heat soaked track.

If you worried about the numbers dont be. The car makes 100 more horse power then last year, whats not to like? Its only gonna make more power as we go.
Be like the rest of us and jump in and get your feet wet. Hell I dont mind being the guinea pig.
I hope to be jumping in next week. I joined MCA so I can get X-Plan pricing and I got a Mustang brochure with the $750 off coupon in it.


PS, that's why we talk about the DA. That way my runs at Cecil County or Atco at 200'DA can be compared to someone running at 3000'DA

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Okay, not to totally hijack this thread, but while we are speaking about CAI/tunes could someone explain why an aftermarket CAI is better than the cold air induction that ford has stock in these cars? I mean, a few of these CAIs are using the stock air inlet to supply their boxes, so what is really different besides a K&N style filter? Just curious...

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-06-2010 Thread Starter
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If you look at American Muscles Dyno runs with the C&L they only picked up 6rwhp with the CAI and tune. So not sure if 300 + bucks is really worth it for 6rwhp. I think most of the gains are in the tune. I see guys with just tunes running the same #'s as guys with tune/CAI combo.

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That is exactly what I am thinking. My thoughts are that the only gains you might see with an aftermarket CAI would come from a less restrictive, cotton filter, better heat shielding around the box, and possibly a greater surface area of the filter (not sure if the conical filter has more surface area than the square, stock filter).

IMHO, the stock intake doesn't really look all that restrictive, and it already gets its air directly from the cooler charge not coming through the radiator. With that said, the CAIs look nice, but not $300+ nice.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08DarkCandyGT View Post
If you look at American Muscles Dyno runs with the C&L they only picked up 6rwhp with the CAI and tune. So not sure if 300 + bucks is really worth it for 6rwhp. I think most of the gains are in the tune. I see guys with just tunes running the same #'s as guys with tune/CAI combo.
Not quite sure where you're seeing 6RWHP... I think you mean the difference of just the tune on the stock airbox, and the tune with a CAI, the CAI only picked up 6RWHP.

The no-tune intake picked up almost double that.

The tune is where most of the horsepower is in that combo. However, the more that you do to the vehicle, the more you're going to utilize the intake. I'll bet with all of the modifications we have on the car NOW, if we took the intake back off and measured, we'd lose more than 6RWHP... it's probably utilizing that 95mm alot better now.

The C&L intake outflows the stock airbox by several hundred CFM.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2010 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMChrisRose View Post
Not quite sure where you're seeing 6RWHP... I think you mean the difference of just the tune on the stock airbox, and the tune with a CAI, the CAI only picked up 6RWHP.

The no-tune intake picked up almost double that.

The tune is where most of the horsepower is in that combo. However, the more that you do to the vehicle, the more you're going to utilize the intake. I'll bet with all of the modifications we have on the car NOW, if we took the intake back off and measured, we'd lose more than 6RWHP... it's probably utilizing that 95mm alot better now.

The C&L intake outflows the stock airbox by several hundred CFM.
I see what you are saying. But for a guy who is just going to get a tune /CAI and axleback would the CAI be worth the money? 300+ is a lot of money for an added 6rwhp? The real test i guess would be run the car on the track with just a tune and then run the car with the added CAI and see how much improvement there is. I see guys running low 12,s with just the SCT canned tune and slicks the same as those running custom tune and CAI.

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Quote:
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The C&L intake outflows the stock airbox by several hundred CFM.
Thanks for that information. See, I do not understand why manufacturers don't publicize that information in their product descriptions. I would like to know what the difference is between a stock airbox vs. a stock airbox with a K&N vs. an aftermarket CAI.

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It's a toss up. I also just like having a nicer CAI to feed the engine, regardless. The stock airbox is so bulky, I always like going with a much more clean setup. I can see where people not planning on going much further with the car would be unhappy with 6RWHP.

I would purchase it, personally... I also just like it from an aesthetics standpoint.


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