Tune without CAI? - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Just curious, have you compared the power gains with your tunes and stock CAI versus aftermarket CAI and tune? Also, same question, but with just a drop in K&N filter with a tune?
2011 Mustang GT: Prototype CAI & Dyno Tune - Huge Power Gains! | AmericanMuscle.com Mustang Blog

K&N drop-in filter results we don't have. I would venture a guess of 3RWHP? 5RWHP? At the VERY most.


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In my honest opinion, I wouldn't waste money on a drop-in filter. Purchase either the CAI/Tune kit or just get the tuner and wait to purchase a CAI down the road after you're convinced.

It makes sense the more you modify the car, the more power the intake makes. Sure the intake is only worth 10RWHP right now, and 10RWTQ to make it simple. So then you add exhaust, and maybe even headers? I'll bet you take that CAI off and you lose way more than 10RWHP and 10RWTQ... now you're starving your beautiful long tube headers and high flow x or off road pipe, etc.

Unless your class prohibits you from modifying (like the example in this thread), I'd like to hear one of you guys tell me you have no further modifications planned for the future (Without your wives standing around). Me no believe you.

If any of the above sounded "sales pitchy", good. It should. I can actually go to bed thinking, these people are buying something they're going to be 100% satisfied in. Not many people sell items like that.


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2011 Mustang GT: Prototype CAI & Dyno Tune - Huge Power Gains! | AmericanMuscle.com Mustang Blog

K&N drop-in filter results we don't have. I would venture a guess of 3RWHP? 5RWHP? At the VERY most.
Thanks!

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To answer your first questions, any tune that's calibrated for an intake cannot be run on a stock airbox. Just as a tune for the stock airbox can not be run with an aftermarket intake. The MAF calibration will be off, which will affect load, which affects fueling, etc. Domino effect.
Thanks Chris! You seem to be the only vendor who regularly posts and promptly answers questions. That's enough to sell me...

Looks like I'll just re-flash back to stock AND take the intake off for AutoX - a bit of a PITA, but at least my conscience will be clean (I won't be cheating).

Please let us know how the FRPP vs BAMA turns out...

The SCT tune route has one more cool advantage - LiveLink data logging! ProCal can't do that...

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I'm working hard to get that pro-cal tool in here. They're having trouble getting it, because it's on Backorder. And then I heard the automatic calibration is still being worked on.

So we might test drive a manual from a local dealer for the day, throw it on the dynojet with the FRPP tune and ours.

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2011 Mustang GT: Prototype CAI & Dyno Tune - Huge Power Gains! | AmericanMuscle.com Mustang Blog

K&N drop-in filter results we don't have. I would venture a guess of 3RWHP? 5RWHP? At the VERY most.
what bothers me is that nobody does any real world dyno testing with the hood closed. most of the "cold" air intakes look like they will suck more hot engine bay air than cold air... sure when you dyno the car with the hood open it has plenty of fresh air to suck through the open filter, which will show gains that may not translate to real world street driving...
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what bothers me is that nobody does any real world dyno testing with the hood closed. most of the "cold" air intakes look like they will suck more hot engine bay air than cold air... sure when you dyno the car with the hood open it has plenty of fresh air to suck through the open filter, which will show gains that may not translate to real world street driving...
While the factory stock box ONLY takes cold air in from the grill.....

That could definately be skewing the results and making the CAIs look more efficient then they are (with hood open testing)...nice catch.

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The difference in temperature is going to be very small. We've tested IAT's and you're not getting more timing by having a colder inlet temp in our tune. With identical datalogs (timing, VCT, air/fuel ratio) and CAI/Panel filter there's going to be a big enough difference to warrant its' purchase. Cold air (to some extent) isn't what makes power. It's the parameters that use air temp to deliver fueling and spark that make power. With those items out of the way, there's still a huge difference.

A CAI is worth it, period. It's even more worth it when you've got other items that require air.

When our dynojet is here, I'll gladly provide proof including datalogs. We can take a look at how much power our car loses when we take away the CAI for a panel filter on the stock intake. (I refuse to call the stock intake a CAI)

I am willing to be there's alot more power lost putting that thing back on after adding exhaust.

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While the factory stock box ONLY takes cold air in from the grill.....

That could definately be skewing the results and making the CAIs look more efficient then they are (with hood open testing)...nice catch.
+1
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Quote:
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The difference in temperature is going to be very small. We've tested IAT's and you're not getting more timing by having a colder inlet temp in our tune. With identical datalogs (timing, VCT, air/fuel ratio) and CAI/Panel filter there's going to be a big enough difference to warrant its' purchase. Cold air (to some extent) isn't what makes power. It's the parameters that use air temp to deliver fueling and spark that make power. With those items out of the way, there's still a huge difference.

A CAI is worth it, period. It's even more worth it when you've got other items that require air.

When our dynojet is here, I'll gladly provide proof including datalogs. We can take a look at how much power our car loses when we take away the CAI for a panel filter on the stock intake. (I refuse to call the stock intake a CAI)

I am willing to be there's alot more power lost putting that thing back on after adding exhaust.
That will be one of the most useful posts this year! Looking forward to that one!

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The second our FRPP procal tool is here, we'll provide those results as well as with/without intake. Keep an eye out!

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The difference in temperature is going to be very small. We've tested IAT's and you're not getting more timing by having a colder inlet temp in our tune. With identical datalogs (timing, VCT, air/fuel ratio) and CAI/Panel filter there's going to be a big enough difference to warrant its' purchase. Cold air (to some extent) isn't what makes power. It's the parameters that use air temp to deliver fueling and spark that make power. With those items out of the way, there's still a huge difference.

A CAI is worth it, period. It's even more worth it when you've got other items that require air.

When our dynojet is here, I'll gladly provide proof including datalogs. We can take a look at how much power our car loses when we take away the CAI for a panel filter on the stock intake. (I refuse to call the stock intake a CAI)

I am willing to be there's alot more power lost putting that thing back on after adding exhaust.
not sure why you refuse to call the stock intake a CAI. that's exactly what it is... it might not be a "high flow" intake, but it is certainly a cold air intake.

when you do this testing, make sure to get some dyno numbers with the hood closed (aftermarket intake vs. stock). i still have a hard time buying the huge claims on some of these aftermarket intakes. if the heat shield really does seal against the hood (like some of the manufacturers claim), then wouldn't the airflow still be restricted by the factory plumbing that captures air from the grill?
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not sure why you refuse to call the stock intake a CAI. that's exactly what it is... it might not be a "high flow" intake, but it is certainly a cold air intake.
Actually, the flow seems pretty good too, if I can believe my OBD data logging numbers. I posted them thread: "CAI and Stock Flow"

Chris said these may not be reliable though. I do have some pretty graphs of MAF, RPM, TPS, IAT. I'm not a tuner though - just wanted to play around...

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Quote:
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not sure why you refuse to call the stock intake a CAI. that's exactly what it is... it might not be a "high flow" intake, but it is certainly a cold air intake.

when you do this testing, make sure to get some dyno numbers with the hood closed (aftermarket intake vs. stock). i still have a hard time buying the huge claims on some of these aftermarket intakes. if the heat shield really does seal against the hood (like some of the manufacturers claim), then wouldn't the airflow still be restricted by the factory plumbing that captures air from the grill?
With all of the baffles and fresh air tubes, I just have a hard time calling it that. I do admit, you're correct... it does pull cold air, and it is an intake... until it flows like one, that term is going to confuse people into thinking there is no room for improvement over their factory intake.

I'm not too worried about the manufacturers claims, the aftermarket vendors have given out the real numbers again and again. Sometimes the manufacturers claims are dead on, sometimes they're slightly or insanely inflated, sometimes they're even a little conservative. The vendors results are who you should be worried about.

The factory plumbing comes from the grille and dumps into the bottom of the factory heat shield. Aftermarket heat shields reuse this same ducting. The heatshield sealing against the hood doesn't have any affect on it. However, with that being said... the aftermarket pinch weld actually seals tighter against the hood liner than factory stuff.

Hood open/closed isn't going to change dyno results, whatsoever.

The only thing the hot air will do is IF IT GETS HOT ENOUGH, pull timing. However, the plastic aftermarket intakes aren't going to get heatsoaked enough to do this, even in summer. 90% of the time, the aftermarket cold air intake is going to run alot cooler than factory, but the important thing is more volume. The other 10% of the time doesn't matter because it's not going to pull timing with a good tune, set up correctly.

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Actually, the flow seems pretty good too, if I can believe my OBD data logging numbers. I posted them thread: "CAI and Stock Flow"

Chris said these may not be reliable though. I do have some pretty graphs of MAF, RPM, TPS, IAT. I'm not a tuner though - just wanted to play around...
I was just saying be a little careful, some of the PIDs and DMRs aren't reading correctly in the software. There has to be a Livelink update at some point here to straighten it out.


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