Letter From Camaro Nation - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011 Thread Starter
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Letter From Camaro Nation

Camaro Nation:

As you know, the blogs lit up with the announcement of the new 650-horsepower Mustang GT500, and I wanted to give you my perspective on the latest challenge from Dearborn.

The Mustang has been playing catch up since the moment the fifth-gen Camaro arrived in 2009. Since then, Camaro has been the best-selling sports car in America, indicating that consumers know which car offers the best performance, style and safety.

It is no coincidence that Mustang has introduced three 100-horsepower increases to keep pace with Camaro: First their V-6 was bumped to 305; then their V-8 went to 412, and now the GT500.

Even with the 100-hp increase, the 2013 GT500 will still not match the technology and sophistication of the 2012 Camaro ZL1.

The days of ďno replacement for displacement,Ē are over, and itís not enough to be fast in a straight line. With the Camaro ZL1, we set out to deliver integrated performance, and be equally good at acceleration, braking, grip, and turning. As you will soon see, thatís why the Camaro ZL1 will set the performance benchmark for the segment.

Our approach was to make every Camaro ZL1 fully track-capable, from the factory. As we announced today, the ZL1 Coupe will start at $54,995 with standard Magnetic Ride Control, standard Performance Traction Management, and standard track-capable equipment such as a rear-differential cooler, brake cooling ducts, and an engine and transmission cooler.

None of our customers will have to buy extra options Ė or modify their ZL1 Ė for track-day usage. That is not the case for the current GT500, or their new car.

For Mustang fans, youíre welcome. Clearly the Camaro has encouraged Ford to throw everything they can at us.

For Camaro fans, trust me, we are always listening to your feedback, and working hard to keep the Camaro in the lead.

Al O.




Thought it was worth sharing.

A letter that one of the mods over at camaronation.com sent out to all members.


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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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uh wait a minute is it just me or was the camaro gone for like 7 years?

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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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If the letter came from one of the designers, i might say awesome, let the games begin. But considering it was just some mod, at some forum,...... sounds like just another fannie with his head up his @ss.
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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lol okay... so then what happens when Ford brings back the Mach 1??

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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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it may be faster or something what ever, but who wants to drive an ugly as **** chevy?

i don't drive my mustang cause its super fast, i mean i can't drive it any faster then a prius really because i don't enjoy speeding tickets, i drive it for how it looks and sounds.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011 Thread Starter
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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Actually part of that "letter" was said by one of the engineer's of the ZL1 in an interview to motor-trend i believe. How do i know? I was pulling 24 hour shift last week and read alot of random things online.

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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusWolf View Post
Actually part of that "letter" was said by one of the engineer's of the ZL1 in an interview to motor-trend i believe. How do i know? I was pulling 24 hour shift last week and read alot of random things online.
My Mistake.. i also saw it here

Camaro ZL1 Chief Engineer says "You're Welcome" to Ford Mustang fans

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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 12-04-2011
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The issues I see with both Ford and Chevy is in both cases, they have taken cars that were once obtainable for the 20 something crown and now price them out of the market.

The GT500 and ZL1 are now niche cars unlike the 87-93 5.0 and the Iroc, etc.

I could put enough money into my 89 Fox and run with the GT500 and ZL1 too

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stangdawg View Post
...they have taken cars that were once obtainable for the 20 something crown and now price them out of the market...
Cars that performed like the GT500 and ZL1 were once obtainable by the 20 something crowd?

Which cars were those?

My dream Mustang and one of the baddest of the 60's-70's era was the '69 Boss 429. According to this...

Musclecarclub.com - 50 Fastest Muscle Cars

...in their Sep '69 issue Hi Performance Cars magazine tested one w/a 3.91 rear and a 4 speed and ran a 13.6 sec qtr mile @ 106 mph.

The '11 Mustang V6 was tested by Motor Trend for there 3/10 issue and ran the qtr in 13.7 sec @ 102. MSRP on that car starts @ ~ $23K.

2011 Ford Mustang V-6 First Test - Motor Trend

Same issue they ran the qtr in the GT and got a 12.8 @ 111. MSRP on these starts at ~ $30K.

2011 Ford Mustang GT Premium First Test - Motor Trend

I don't understand what your point is.

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My point is that the GT500 and ZL1 are not going to be driven by the masses. I can go rent a V6 stang any day of the week and is not part of the topic listed by the OP.

You are wasting time comparing 25-40 year old technology. That's not the point. When the older cars were being sold, they were the performance kings of their day. Even my Accord V6 could out run my 89 5.0 when it was stock. Different era, apples and oranges.

The point is it used to be Stangs and Slomaros were affordable and that included top the top tier. Example: The GT or Iroc

Now the top tier is out of reach for a large segment either by cost or practicality.

Go price out the GT now, not a V6. Why do people get the V6 instead of the new 5.0? For the majority of people buying them it's cost.

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Oh, well pardon me then.

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Well, based on the op's post, I think I'll now list my GTCS up for sale and run straight to a GM dealership and buy me a Camaro!!!!!!
With all due respect,GM could not give me an SS for free, prior to buying my GTCS I had a month old red camaro ss in my hands through the good heart of my wife's cousins girlfriend for a whole week... hated how vague the ride felt,hated how I was feeling with the nasty blind spots on the rear flanks, the interior is just nothing more than a "tub" no matter how I tried to adjust the seat,honestly nothing really appealed to me about that car.
On the third day of having the Camaro my wife and I decided to head to our cottage for the day and one night... well that was fun trying to put stuff in that trunk, if you can call it a trunk, the trunk itself is a fair size, but the opening is just a joke,I could NOT put my golf bag in there if my life depended on it.
What I hated the most was the numb steering and road feel that just was not there!
Sorry mate, this car just don't ignite any passion in me,if I did not purchase the GTCS I would have chose the Challenger SRT8,which by far is a superior ride than the Camaro is my books,and. I am not bashing here; I approached all three cars (automakers) with an open heart, I bought for my pleasure not because of brand loyalty.
The Mustang GTCS won hands down, a close second was the SRT8 and a cross out on the Camaro.

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The Camaro is a nice car -- I'm not down with the look entirely, especially the interior, but I'd never fault someone for falling for it.

And horsepower wars aside, what turned me on to the Mustang was how it handled ó which in my experience is superior to the Camaro. Interestingly, that's something most of the enthusiast magazines have noted as well. This car, despite some impressively old-school tech, is exceptionally well-balanced and fun to toss.

Are there things to quibble about? Transmission...well enough said there. Steering feel really needs better software and better dynamic weighting (there are times I feel like I get better communication from my XBox steering wheel). And the seats (which thankfully are being addressed in the 2013) lack enough side bolsters and you slide under cornering load.

But for the price, nothing matches the grin ratio and I am a happy owner.

For the whole GT500/ZL1 "trackable" issue -- that's more a factor for a few race guys, not the majority of us who do little more than enjoy some "spirited" driving. The trickle down is great ó and knowing my GT is as powerful, roughly, as a GT500 of just a couple of years ago is awesome.

But there's also a point of diminishing returns. At 600HP, you're basically selling Nationwide NASCAR power for street use. Even my GT has a better power to weight ratio than the old Formula Atlantic cars I used to race, not to mention any rally or autocross car I campaigned.

Growing up as a gear-head in the 1980s, with anemic "muscle cars" and small, light Japanese cars as the only workable options, these are (like the late 1960s) "the good old days" for those of you in your 20s. You can plunk down mid-20s and get a very capable performance car...

Hopefully, of course, you'll be smart enough to recognize that the Mustang is the better option...but either way, these are good times.

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The Chevy /Ford rivalry has been going on since they both started
building cars. Everyone knows how popular a 57 Chevy is, yet not everyone knows that 57 Fords outsold Chevys that year.
Anyways, we all know Camaros are popular and in a free market society manufactureres are going to do anything they can to sell their cars and out sell the competition.
Might I suggest why Cameros and Chevys have become and have always been so popular. One of the words thay comes to mind is "consistency". Since 1956 when Chev introduced their small block v8, they did not change the design for many many years. They introduced a big block version shortly after, and also stayed consistent with that design. Parts interchangeability amongst small block and big block displacement variables was second to none. This won the hearts of racers and performance enthusiasts right from the start, and it did create a "nation" of Chevy lovers who have stayed loyal to this day.
Ford dropped the ball in those days.when they offered their 351 for example, they offered three different versions with parts specific to each version. It was a nightmare fopr racers who needed parts in a hurry, and expensive for owners who had to buy different parts for each "different engine.
Anywway my point is this. Yes the Chevy / Ford rivalry is still ongoing and always will be. I am glad that manufacturers are allowed to say what they want ( within limits) to sell their products. And yes it seems there is quite a cult following amongst chevy owners, although Mustangs have their share. But you have to give it to Chevy for building up this following, by staying consistent long enough to do so.

And my point ? I don't know, I just like Mustangs.And I am glad It is my choice, what I decide to buy andf drive:hihi:


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