Euro Sales of Mustang being questioned - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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Some people are just afraid of change. It doesn't matter how crappy what they currently have is, or how much better a new offering is, if it's different then they don't want it.

I've never understood this mentality myself, but I still occasionally still see men with mullets, so I know that some people are just that way.



To me, the way a car performs always comes first. Any improvement in general performance makes the car better in my opinion. I'll happily take an awesome performing car with bland looks over a lot of bling with no substance any day. If the next-gen Mustang looks a bit like an Aston Martin, that's fine with me, as long as the performance is there.

What I don't want is for the next-gen Mustang to continue to handle like a pickup truck just because a tiny percentage of "purists" don't like change.

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Originally Posted by 5.0 Coyote View Post
Ford has netured the Mustang in the past and also made them ugly,were not even sure the V8 Coyote will even fit in the new 2015 Mustang,much less the new Shelby engine,and I hope they don"t 4 or 6 banger Eco Boost that would be a real netured job.

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Originally Posted by 46Tbird View Post
Just stick with the plan, Ford. Make the styling distinctive, handsome, and aggressive; offer a V8 under the hood; and keep a lot of options on the sheet so that everyone can afford a bada$$ car for their budget.

This is all that needs to be said.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstFord94 View Post
There's a big difference between admiring something and actually spending your money on it. For example, after spending some time behind the wheel of a Mini Cooper S this past summer at an autocross, I have a new found respect for the car. But I'd never buy one because the interior design is absolutely terrible. I think many Europeans admire the Mustang, but its impractical for many, both in physical size, engine displacement, emissions, fuel economy, and cost. Plus, if you look at most european designs, they are vastly different than what the mustang brings to the table. It's a rough and tumble kind of car. If most Europeans wanted that sort of vehicle, they would sell in much greater numbers than they do.

Not everyone in europe loves the mustang enough to actually want to buy one. Ford's task with the next mustang is to make the mustang more palatable to the European audience---or at least that's what we've been lead to believe. If they can get the car down to something more along the size of a Fox body mustang, along with the excellent motors that Ford is producing currently, and an IRS, I think they could produce something with more universal appeal.
Here's my take on the subject: While I agree that a V8 Mustang will not have the huge sales volume for a European consumer market (although there will be a few enthusiasts that will spend the cash...just like there are today who import and pay the huge taxes/import fees, etc.), but a 4 or 6 banger will sell all day long...assuming the price is in competition with other makes/models that are sold daily here.

You're right when you say there's a "difference between admiring something and actually spending your money on it." However, being here in Germany I can tell you without hesitation that if Ford is smart they can sell Mustangs--and many of them. Germany's economy--today--is not in the toilet...not even close. While other European countries are having difficulties, it's the Germans and French who are bailing them all out. Yes, it will take it's tole on the "bread winners" eventually--assuming things stay the current course--the article linked is very misleading on several accounts that I won't even go into here, but Germans are not hurting when it comes to their standard of living--comparatively.

I don't think--purely conjecture on my part--Ford is going to trash the Mustang, as in years past, just to please some green society. If the V8/V6 is offered in North America it will sell...most likely in the same numbers as in the past few years. However, if a Turbo 4 is also offered in Europe (and/or North America) then it's just a win for Ford IMO. I think 46T said it best:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 46Tbird
Just stick with the plan, Ford. Make the styling distinctive, handsome, and aggressive...
Many of you seem to focus on one outlook and not the possibilities of having several options on the table. If the Mustang is only offered in Europe with a V8 then no, it won't sell well. If other options are available then it will. There are a plethora of 6 banger cars racing down German autobahns daily. Most are not getting close to 30mpg...yet Germans still drive them. As long as it looks good, can handle 100mph speeds for extended periods of time, offer low maintenance and reliability, and get decent gas mileage...they'll sell here.

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The car will be lighter and slightly smaller which will make V8 models faster than current models without coyote improvements but if they add DI the 2015 GT with IRS could be pushing current Boss performance territory.

As far as Europe I expect Ford will push the Ecoboost 2.3L which will provide Europeans with a stylish coupe that is fairly efficient and sporty. It will be interesting to see just how much lighter they can make the new cars as every 100 lbs removed frees up significant HP and removes quarter seconds from 1/4 mile runs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YerBuddysPony View Post
Here's my take on the subject: While I agree that a V8 Mustang will not have the huge sales volume for a European consumer market (although there will be a few enthusiasts that will spend the cash...just like there are today who import and pay the huge taxes/import fees, etc.), but a 4 or 6 banger will sell all day long...assuming the price is in competition with other makes/models that are sold daily here.
I don't at all disagree with this. There will be a market for almost any car you put up for sale. And your idea about a 4- and 6-cyl alternative in certain countries is also a good one. Though I don't see the current mustang selling well, even if it was available in a smaller diaplacement version. The problem is that most europeans, whether you believe it or not (especially Germans!) are extremely nationalistic. You give the average German a choice between say a Golf/Scirocco R and what would likely be a similarly priced current gen mustang with a small motor (assuming such a thing existed for the sake of argument), and I bet a majority would choose the VW without even thinking twice. There is a supposed German citizen on this board who bought a GT and was mentioning how much crap he got for buying a Mustang. Like I said, admiring something and actually buying it are two very different things. There's a reason why VWs, which have up until now, have been almost exclusively deisgned for the EU market have not sold very well in the US. It's the same reason why the current mustang wouldn't sell well in the EU regardless of the powertrain.

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I can tell you without hesitation that if Ford is smart they can sell Mustangs--and many of them. Germany's economy--today--is not in the toilet...not even close. While other European countries are having difficulties, it's the Germans and French who are bailing them all out.
With the current car, I don't believe this to be true, regardless regional wealth. However, if the question is if Ford could sell the Mustang nameplate outside of the US, the answer of course is, yes. Like VW has done with the current Jetta and Passat, Ford will need to produce a product that fits a little more closely to the expectations of a different market. I don't think with today's technology it's hard to due. But I think exterior styling could be the biggest issue.


Quote:
Many of you seem to focus on one outlook and not the possibilities of having several options on the table. If the Mustang is only offered in Europe with a V8 then no, it won't sell well. If other options are available then it will.
With today's modular platforms it shouldn't be all that difficult to put in different drivetrain combinations for different markets. What will be an issue is developing a product with both a look and feel that will appeal to everyone. A more shapely and sleek body, with more attention to interior design will certainly appeal to more EU folks, but it may not appeal to a core audience of Americans who have a history of buying mustangs. Ford will have to walk a fine line with design and driving dynamics with the next mustang. It's not going to be the hardware, but the details which will determine how much of a national and international success the next mustang will be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstFord94 View Post
Though I don't see the current mustang selling well, even if it was available in a smaller diaplacement version. The problem is that most europeans, whether you believe it or not (especially Germans!) are extremely nationalistic. You give the average German a choice between say a Golf/Scirocco R and what would likely be a similarly priced current gen mustang with a small motor (assuming such a thing existed for the sake of argument), and I bet a majority would choose the VW without even thinking twice. There is a supposed German citizen on this board who bought a GT and was mentioning how much crap he got for buying a Mustang. Like I said, admiring something and actually buying it are two very different things. There's a reason why VWs, which have up until now, have been almost exclusively deisgned for the EU market have not sold very well in the US. It's the same reason why the current mustang wouldn't sell well in the EU regardless of the powertrain.
I can tell you that it's not all black and white (either/or) like you mention. "Extremely nationalistic" is the case in any country. I don't completely disagree that the "average German" --if there is one-- would purchase a German product before an American. That's just the way it is with any nation. However, the Mustang has a reputation here and it's a good one (not because of anything other than it's an icon). Just like we in North American don't buy a Mustang GT for the good fuel economy nor the super quality interior etc. Germans are the same way. Fords sell very well here.

I do however completely disagree that a Mustang won't sell "regardless of the powertrain." I could be wrong, but I see a buttload of Fords here on the roads. I also see a lot of 6 cylinder and V8 cars driving at 120+ mph and I know for a fact they aren't getting great gas mileage at those speeds--no matter who makes them. If the style, HP, drivability, reliability, and price is there it will sell no matter if it's made in Germany or not.

...and, your "German" who bought a Mustang GT and got razzed by his friends for buying one is nothing more than what we see in America: "You should've bought a Chevy," or "I wouldn't be caught dead spending that much money for a BMW," or my favorite, "I don't understand why anyone would buy a V8!" "Don't you know you are depleting the oil reserves?" "My Prius gets 3x mpg!" He, more than likely, got razzed because he bought a V8 and spent more in taxes and import fees than he would have buying an AMG. It's not because his German friends are goose-stepping in unison with each other and hate everything American.

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I can tell you that it's not all black and white (either/or) like you mention. "Extremely nationalistic" is the case in any country. I don't completely disagree that the "average German" --if there is one-- would purchase a German product before an American. That's just the way it is with any nation. However, the Mustang has a reputation here and it's a good one (not because of anything other than it's an icon). Just like we in North American don't buy a Mustang GT for the good fuel economy nor the super quality interior etc. Germans are the same way. Fords sell very well here.

I do however completely disagree that a Mustang won't sell "regardless of the powertrain." I could be wrong, but I see a buttload of Fords here on the roads. I also see a lot of 6 cylinder and V8 cars driving at 120+ mph and I know for a fact they aren't getting great gas mileage at those speeds--no matter who makes them. If the style, HP, drivability, reliability, and price is there it will sell no matter if it's made in Germany or not.

...and, your "German" who bought a Mustang GT and got razzed by his friends for buying one is nothing more than what we see in America: "You should've bought a Chevy," or "I wouldn't be caught dead spending that much money for a BMW," or my favorite, "I don't understand why anyone would buy a V8!" "Don't you know you are depleting the oil reserves?" "My Prius gets 3x mpg!" He, more than likely, got razzed because he bought a V8 and spent more in taxes and import fees than he would have buying an AMG. It's not because his German friends are goose-stepping in unison with each other and hate everything American.
The photo albums you share with us prove your point 100 fold! What was the name of that Wild-West inspired town?

If Ford can get the Mustang in showrooms at prices close to competing 'sporty' cars (BMW 1 and 3-series, which btw typically have fewer luxury options in Europe) they could sell the current model without any problems.
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Very well said, YerBuddy. I haven't spent much time in Germany but I just came from being stationed in the UK for 4 years. Yes, gas prices are high but you can't just make a blanket prediction on how a Mustang would sell based upon that. There are a lot more tiny diesels running around as daily drivers, but I would say that there are more performance cars running around as well. I used to see at least 10 Porsche 911s a day in the UK, not to mention all the Audi S series, AMG Mercedes and BMW M models I'd see daily, so it's not like people are hurting to the point that they are all buying econo-boxes. Personally, I don't think there would be any change to the Mustang if it were introduced to the European/UK market.

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I guess it would make things more interesting to see exactly what Ford forecasts for sales in the European market. We really have no idea if they are actually looking to make a big splash or simply offering up an 'image' car to add to their european lines that will resonate with those looking for something different or 'American'. A reason, curiosity to bring people into dealerships that may not otherwise look at a Ford. An alternative to the mass of little FWD sporty hatches and the German RWD cars.
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However they change the 2015..(hopefully not like the spy shots I've seen). We will adjust to it.. I hated the 1999-2004 body style and then ended up buying 3 of them.Although now that I look back on it they were pretty ugly. In my opinion and the opinion of most car enthusiast I know, the 2011-2014 is the best looking and performing mustang since the 1960s. Now the 2015 may come out with 500+ hp but it still will not look as good as a '11-"14. This is only one mans opinion, but the mustang has looked like crap since the 70s and finally recieved the correct retro styling and will probably never be this cool again. Also if they throw some "tuner" 4 or 6 turbo junk in there THIS guy will be looking for a used GT500 for his next car... "tuners" blahhh

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Even if it's terrible, it'll sell great. Mustangs always sell.
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I wish we could just fast-forward time and see where the 2015 Mustang ends up at.

All the suspense is killing me.
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Whatever it is, there is really no reason to worry unduly about it at this point because at this late date Ford's plans are made. All we can do is anxiously wait to see what's its going to be.

Whatever it is, I am sure some of us will love it and some of us will hate it.

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I'm not sure why a newer model being "worse" than the old matters. If you like the older ones, buy an older one. If the new one sucks, it doesn't make all previous models before it disappear.

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