Just got a no muffler ticket for Roush A/Bs - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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If he the officer is an Expert, have him produce a Certification stating so and how many years of Documented Years of Experienced Exhaust Knowledge he has. Also, find out if those mufflers on your car are Legal in your area for Purchase and Use.

Good Luck!!!


Last edited by RacerX; 06-14-2014 at 10:09 AM. Reason: rewording
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Unfortunately a lot of cops are douchebags. Not all of them, not even the majority of them, but enough of a percentage that things like this happen.

The other unfortunate thing is that the HTA is filled with vague rules that are up to the officer's interpretation. When you combine these two facets you end up with a scenario like yours.

Hopefully you can resolve this. Good luck.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by T3RM1N8R View Post
Was pulled over... guy starts taking pictures of the mufflers and underneath the car.

Says its illegal and shows me a picture he just took of the muffler showing its straight through design.

Gives me a ticket for having no mufflers.

Anybody know anything about this?

As far as i was aware the Roush is legal in All US states and Canada.

Looks like ill be going to court... just need some good info.
If it was the U.S., I would say sue the PD for a violation of civil rights (4th amendment). Taking photos is the equivalent of a search you did not consent to and a very good argument can be made that the muffler is not visible to the plain eye and that the cop had to cross a threshold that probable cause for a traffic stop did not allow him to.

In Canada, all I can do is wish you good luck.

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Straight exhaust != Straight Thru Muffler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BULLDOG00 View Post
Straight exhaust != Straight Thru Muffler
As far as im aware, straight exhaust and straight thru muffler are not the same thing. Part of my legal argument was going to be based on this.

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Here in California there is a 93 dbm at 50' sound limit. Anything above that is illegal. Better check your local laws before going to court, he pulled you over because it was LOUD. He took pictures to prove your exhaust isn't stock & might have a dbm detector built into his truck.

I notice many police cars now come with built in radar to check vehicles coming & going. Good luck.



Last edited by Joenpb; 06-14-2014 at 06:37 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatopotomus View Post
If it was the U.S., I would say sue the PD for a violation of civil rights (4th amendment). Taking photos is the equivalent of a search you did not consent to and a very good argument can be made that the muffler is not visible to the plain eye and that the cop had to cross a threshold that probable cause for a traffic stop did not allow him to.
I'm not a lawyer but I do have two of them in the family and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

If this had been in the US and assuming there was enough probable cause to pull him over for exhaust noise in the first place, then there certainly was enough probable cause to look under the car and take pictures.

Besides, unlike the US, probable cause is not a requirement for traffic stops in Canada. They treat driving as a privilege not a right (actually it's a privilege in the US as well but not to the same extent) so a driver is expected to put up with traffic stops for everyone's "safety". That's why they can do random drunk driving checkpoints that would be impossible (lack of probable cause) in the States.

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What????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuck89 View Post
Also just found this from the Ontario Highway Traffic Act:
Noise, smoke, bells and horns
Muffler
75. (1) Every motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle shall be equipped with a muffler in good working order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and excessive smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, straight exhaust, gutted muffler, hollywood muffler, by-pass or similar device upon a motor vehicle or motor assisted bicycle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 75 (1).
Unfortunately, the "straight-through" design of the Roush mufflers could be interpreted as "straight exhaust". You might have a tough fight ahead of you.

If the ticket was for noise, then you most likely violated a local bylaw, not the HTA.


So I got the logical part of the Code all the way until Hollywood Muffler?

I have Hollywood looks and narcissistic ways, that's so I can fit in! I guess I'm illegal in Canada. LOL

Your point of straight exhaust has merits as Roush describes these mufflers as a straight design.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00 View Post
I'm not a lawyer but I do have two of them in the family and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

If this had been in the US and assuming there was enough probable cause to pull him over for exhaust noise in the first place, then there certainly was enough probable cause to look under the car and take pictures.
I know you're argument would most likely hold sway, but I wish more PDs would have to defend these types of actions in court so they would be less likely to do this with the intent of injecting themselves into 'normal people's' lives.

This wasnt a search for illegal weapons, drugs, or kidnapped persons, it was harassment for the intent of writing a ticket (municipal revenue generation).

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Most people view extremely loud exhaust as annoying or harassment, & of course it draws lots of unwanted attention.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00 View Post
I'm not a lawyer but I do have two of them in the family and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

If this had been in the US and assuming there was enough probable cause to pull him over for exhaust noise in the first place, then there certainly was enough probable cause to look under the car and take pictures.

Besides, unlike the US, probable cause is not a requirement for traffic stops in Canada. They treat driving as a privilege not a right (actually it's a privilege in the US as well but not to the same extent) so a driver is expected to put up with traffic stops for everyone's "safety". That's why they can do random drunk driving checkpoints that would be impossible (lack of probable cause) in the States.
Umm... Have you BEEN in the US? Random DUI checkpoints have been going on in all 50 states for years, and have been (somehow) ruled 'constitutional' by courts all over the country. Near the Mexican/US border, immigration checkpoints are very common, as well.

OP, I stand by my earlier post- go online (or make a phone call) and determine exactly what code/statute/law you're accused of breaking. This, and only this, will tell you how you should go about fighting the citation.
Be prepared, though, as a favorite in the states is to have a vague law that says it's illegal to modify your exhaust, so pretty much anyone is stuck. Also, they might have a vague sound level law with no db limit- how do you fight that? It's all opinion, and you can bet any judge would automatically side with a cop.
You just won't know anything until you know what you were cited for. Heck, if he did write you for 'no mufflers', then you're fine. Take your own photo, and maybe one from Roush's website, and there you go- they are mufflers. They might do very little, but they ARE mufflers!
Good luck.
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Have I ever been to the US?? How very observant of you. As my avatar shows, I live in Jacksonville Floriduh. Grew up and got married in Toronto but have been living here for 25 years. Have you ever been to Canada?

The US Supreme court has ruled that truly random checkpoints are illegal so police set up checkpoints where they either stop everyone or else a specified series such as every third car. That eliminates the possibility of profiling and other selective enforcement - but it's not random.

That does not apply in Canada. They set up a checkpoint, stop cars for whatever length of time it takes to check out the driver, then turn around and stop whatever car happens to be passing by next without any particular pattern. There is another difference though... the checkpoints in Canada (at least the ones I've experienced in Toronto and Montreal) are much more friendly and polite. A drunk driving checkpoint doesn't bother people about other violations - they just look at the driver's license, talk to the driver for a minute or two, and if there is no evidence of drinking they hand them a promotional windshield scraper for the inconvenience and send them on their way. The stop generally takes less time than you would spend at a red light so most (non-drinking) drivers don't mind them at all.

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Sounds like the cop's wife ran off with a Mustang-driving guy. Or maybe gal. What an epic tool.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteBird00 View Post
I'm not a lawyer but I do have two of them in the family and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express.

If this had been in the US and assuming there was enough probable cause to pull him over for exhaust noise in the first place, then there certainly was enough probable cause to look under the car and take pictures.

Besides, unlike the US, probable cause is not a requirement for traffic stops in Canada. They treat driving as a privilege not a right (actually it's a privilege in the US as well but not to the same extent) so a driver is expected to put up with traffic stops for everyone's "safety". That's why they can do random drunk driving checkpoints that would be impossible (lack of probable cause) in the States.
Impossible in the states? Not exactly.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbt56 View Post
Umm... Have you BEEN in the US? Random DUI checkpoints have been going on in all 50 states for years, and have been (somehow) ruled 'constitutional' by courts all over the country. Near the Mexican/US border, immigration checkpoints are very common, as well.

OP, I stand by my earlier post- go online (or make a phone call) and determine exactly what code/statute/law you're accused of breaking. This, and only this, will tell you how you should go about fighting the citation.
Be prepared, though, as a favorite in the states is to have a vague law that says it's illegal to modify your exhaust, so pretty much anyone is stuck. Also, they might have a vague sound level law with no db limit- how do you fight that? It's all opinion, and you can bet any judge would automatically side with a cop.
You just won't know anything until you know what you were cited for. Heck, if he did write you for 'no mufflers', then you're fine. Take your own photo, and maybe one from Roush's website, and there you go- they are mufflers. They might do very little, but they ARE mufflers!
Good luck.
Negative sir. DUI checkpoints are illegal where I live.

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