Is the "red-line" real or conservative? - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #16 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011 Thread Starter
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Post Makin' fun of the novice?

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Originally Posted by BrooklynDriver View Post
I like the nice little flashing red light you get on the tach screen when you hit redline... sometimes when I'm in park I just stand on the gas up to redline and hold it there for two or three seconds just to hear the engine scream. Other than that it's hard to get to redline in the automatic, since it shifts itself before then when you're standing on the gas and the governor hits before the rev limiter in 4th.
Okay I'll bite... one thing I do know is that revving your engine that high in neutral is way more dangerous and destructive than when under power. That's similar to why you never actually want to run out of gas, because many/most/all fuel pumps are meant to have liquid resistance and burn up without it.

As far as not reaching the redline, my 3.31s get me there even without WOT... fo noolin'! :shiny:


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Quote:
because many/most/all fuel pumps are meant to have liquid resistance and burn up without it.
The fuel in the tank cools the pump, it's not necessarily because of the fluid resistance.

The reason you don't rev an engine without a load is because it revs and drops rpm's way faster than it was designed. The load forces the engine to accelerate/decelorate slower. So it's more like a sudden acceleration and stopping causing the added stress.
I'm also sure there is also an issue with oil and coolant not being able to lubricate/cool critical engine components fast enough to keep up with the unloaded revving.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricter55 View Post
I have heard that to avoid/prevent engine damage that the car makers fudge the "red-line" by lowering it slightly? In other words, the engine can readily tolerate the occasional momentary venture into this range of rpms. How dangerous is it that my car shifts in the red-line zone at WOT? It doesn't stay there long, but the shift takes place in the red-line even with my BAMA street tunes. :?:
While the engine certainly sees much higher forces as the RPM are increased, transmission is also subject to increased forces when the engine RPM is increased. Ford uses the 6R80 transmission in other vehicles, including the F-150 with several engines. In that appliocation Ford says:
"Ford says the 6R80 has been through 150,000 equivalent miles of testing cycles that reflect the most extreme-use customers, and the box itself is rated up to 7,000 rpm and the fluid is filled for life."

See: Compact Equipment Online - Purpose Driven

So it isn't only the engine that can be subjected to extreme forces when the engine RPM begin to exceed the red-line.

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post #19 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-22-2011 Thread Starter
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Thumbs up liquid (gas) cools the fuel pump...

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Originally Posted by Nightmare37 View Post
The fuel in the tank cools the pump, it's not necessarily because of the fluid resistance.

The reason you don't rev an engine without a load is because it revs and drops rpm's way faster than it was designed. The load forces the engine to accelerate/decelorate slower. So it's more like a sudden acceleration and stopping causing the added stress.
I'm also sure there is also an issue with oil and coolant not being able to lubricate/cool critical engine components fast enough to keep up with the unloaded revving.
Point well taken, but it's hard to believe that any liquid here in Arizona cools anything! :nogrinner

2011 V6 3.7, 3.55 gears, Pony Pkg, Kona Blue, JLT CAI box & cone w/MMR CAI tube. Magnaflow perf/st axle-backs & MF uni x-pipe w/fab mid-pipes. BMR Shortys & 73mm? throttle body w/matching spacer. Whiteline SOLID front & rear sway-bars. Heat shield manifold to eng. Accel coils w/Pulstar plugs. 4 bolts ea side strut tower brace. Have SCT tuner w/91S, 91P, 91R BAMA tunes. Currently using Diablosport Trinity 1000 w/91 octane Dyno-Tune . Soon BMC Black Mamba carbon fiber hood.
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Red Line on an engine is like a Maximum Rating on any component. The Designer/Manufacturer selects it as a limit that will give reasonable life of the assembly. Exceeding it doesn't mean instant failure, but exceeding it on a regular basis probably does shorten the life of the assembly. By how much? That's the interesting question!

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Sorry guys, that was a 5.0 reference. Forgot I was in the 3.7 section! I fail.

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Originally Posted by Ricter55 View Post
Good to know, but confusing. I believe AM indicated my shift point was 7,000 rpm but if I remember correctly at that point the tach turns red even though the tach goes to 7500? So is Ford warning me at 7K that I have almost hit the actual redline of 7,500? If 7K IS the redline and the shift point is set to 7K aren't I shifitng in the red? :?: p.s. AM BAMA tunes really rock and wake up this lil 6er big-time!
Sometimes the problem with the tach is that it will bounce around a little too much. That's why you should really look at it datalogging. More than likely your redline is set to 7300, and your shift points are at 7000. However, we still need to make your MPH match the 7000 shift point.... sometimes wheels spin and other things factored in, it will shift within 100 rpm of where we ask it to. There's also the chance that your phone rep was wrong and your shift points are set to 7300 which is what I am gonna go with. If you PM me over your name, I can pull up the file and give you a definitive answer.

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post #22 of 22 (permalink) Old 09-07-2013 Thread Starter
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Exclamation A/T RPMs exceeded limit...

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Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
While the engine certainly sees much higher forces as the RPM are increased, transmission is also subject to increased forces when the engine RPM is increased. Ford uses the 6R80 transmission in other vehicles, including the F-150 with several engines. In that appliocation Ford says:
"Ford says the 6R80 has been through 150,000 equivalent miles of testing cycles that reflect the most extreme-use customers, and the box itself is rated up to 7,000 rpm and the fluid is filled for life."

See: Compact Equipment Online - Purpose Driven

So it isn't only the engine that can be subjected to extreme forces when the engine RPM begin to exceed the red-line.
My boss discovered that the A/T has RPM issues too. He was moving fast to negotiate traffic that might have his exit blocked and didn't see one of those smoothish Rail Road crossing humps until it was too late to slow down. So he tried to minimize risk of bottoming out (severly lowered Charger R/T Hemi 450+ H.P.) by accelerating to 55+ mph in a 45. His car went air borne with his foot on the accelerator. Engine shut off immediately and displayed an error code. He coasted to the exit and turned off into the first drive-way. Opened the hood and everything looked okay. Looked under the vehicle, even though no scrape took place, nothing dangling. Got back in and it started up but with the error code still there. He drove his baby ($20K+ in mods) straight to the speed shop that dyno-tuned and wrote his tune programs. The code translated to, 'transmission RPMs exceeded safe maximum!' Code cleared just fine... no more un-filed flight plans since!

2011 V6 3.7, 3.55 gears, Pony Pkg, Kona Blue, JLT CAI box & cone w/MMR CAI tube. Magnaflow perf/st axle-backs & MF uni x-pipe w/fab mid-pipes. BMR Shortys & 73mm? throttle body w/matching spacer. Whiteline SOLID front & rear sway-bars. Heat shield manifold to eng. Accel coils w/Pulstar plugs. 4 bolts ea side strut tower brace. Have SCT tuner w/91S, 91P, 91R BAMA tunes. Currently using Diablosport Trinity 1000 w/91 octane Dyno-Tune . Soon BMC Black Mamba carbon fiber hood.
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