Is the "red-line" real or conservative? - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011 Thread Starter
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Question Is the "red-line" real or conservative?

I have heard that to avoid/prevent engine damage that the car makers fudge the "red-line" by lowering it slightly? In other words, the engine can readily tolerate the occasional momentary venture into this range of rpms. How dangerous is it that my car shifts in the red-line zone at WOT? It doesn't stay there long, but the shift takes place in the red-line even with my BAMA street tunes. :?:


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post #2 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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There have been various threads about shifting above the factory redline. The consensus seems to be that it "should not damage your engine," but you have to understand that it is putting more wear on it than normal. If you want to search for the thread, it has some of the theory behind this. Basically, it has to do with how fast the components in the engine are traveling and how safe it is to move them at that speed.

If I were drag racing, I might consider it; it could probably shave some time off of your times. But for street I probably won't do it.

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post #3 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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As long as it's not for an extended period of time, or done frequently, you'll be fine. I'd stick to doing it at the track only, and that's if you're shooting for your fastest time. If you're bracket racing the car every weekend or you drive aggressively, maybe go with a tune that uses the stock rev limiter. There's really no other reason to run it up that high. I doubt you'll see significant performance gains out of 200-300 rpms anyways.

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post #4 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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The way this motor is built, you could probably rev it to better than 7500 with no ill effect but it isn't making any power up there.

Many of the tunes raise the rev limit to 7350 and shift points above 7000.

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post #5 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltngdrvr View Post
The way this motor is built, you could probably rev it to better than 7500 with no ill effect but it isn't making any power up there.

Many of the tunes raise the rev limit to 7350 and shift points above 7000.
Agree...if it isnt making any power up top mine as well shift to the next gear.
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post #6 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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pffft..i redline everyday for split seconds ..many times lol..i stole my mustang!
so far so good... 11k miles

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post #7 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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Both the factory and the Bama tunes actually "bog" the car a bit at greater than 7500K. You can't accelerate any higher as the computer will not let you. It will momentarily feel as if the engine has stalled and might scare the willies out of you the first time you do it. This is a decent "fail safe" to keep you out of the high end of the red zone and spare your engine.

Interestingly, the 2012 Boss' tach is mechanically limited at 9,000 RPM but that's a whole different story.
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post #8 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-16-2011
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I like the nice little flashing red light you get on the tach screen when you hit redline... sometimes when I'm in park I just stand on the gas up to redline and hold it there for two or three seconds just to hear the engine scream. Other than that it's hard to get to redline in the automatic, since it shifts itself before then when you're standing on the gas and the governor hits before the rev limiter in 4th.

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post #9 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-17-2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricter55 View Post
I have heard that to avoid/prevent engine damage that the car makers fudge the "red-line" by lowering it slightly? In other words, the engine can readily tolerate the occasional momentary venture into this range of rpms. How dangerous is it that my car shifts in the red-line zone at WOT? It doesn't stay there long, but the shift takes place in the red-line even with my BAMA street tunes. :?:
Being an engineer, I probably have a little different perspective on "stressing mechanical things" then some others. If you want to hear what the Ford engineers say about high RPM, this is what they said about extending the BOSS 302 engine red-line to 7500 RPM:

""What most people don't realize is that engine stresses increase exponentially as engine speeds rise," explains Harrison. "So moving up from GT's 7,000 rpm redline required significant re-engineering of many different parts. Sacrificing reliability and usability over the GT engine was never an option.""

The message is that the "reliability" will be effected by running over the red-line. May not fail the day you stress it, but it might fail the next day when you start it or maybe not ever. Reliability is all about "probabilities." The whole article is at:
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/2010...302_engine.php

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Last edited by Radioguy; 02-17-2011 at 08:39 PM. Reason: Ref
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Being an engineer, I probably have a little different perspective on "stressing mechanical things" then some others. If you want to hear what the Ford engineers say about high RPM, this is what they said about extending the BOSS 302 engine red-line to 7500 RPM:

""What most people don't realize is that engine stresses increase exponentially as engine speeds rise," explains Harrison. "So moving up from GT's 7,000 rpm redline required significant re-engineering of many different parts. Sacrificing reliability and usability over the GT engine was never an option.""

The message is that the "reliability" will be effected by running over the red-line. May not fail the day you stress it, but it might fail the next day when you start it or maybe not ever. Reliability is all about "probabilities." The whole article is at:
2012 Boss 302 Mustang Engine Overview
Absolutely, the higher you spin it, the smaller your tolerances get. With the new 4V, there's no issue with bumping up the factory redline a little. We typically set shifts at 7000-7300 depending on which tune you're running. 7500 is where I'd put my foot down. We don't send any 7500RPM tunes out, because we don't feel that last few hundred RPM are doing anything for you (and dyno results back that up). We run 10.93 with a baby shot of nitrous (100 shot), CAI, 4.10 gears and exhaust with our 2011 automatic, shifting at 7300 RPM.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMChrisRose View Post
Absolutely, the higher you spin it, the smaller your tolerances get. With the new 4V, there's no issue with bumping up the factory redline a little. We typically set shifts at 7000-7300 depending on which tune you're running. 7500 is where I'd put my foot down. We don't send any 7500RPM tunes out, because we don't feel that last few hundred RPM are doing anything for you (and dyno results back that up). We run 10.93 with a baby shot of nitrous (100 shot), CAI, 4.10 gears and exhaust with our 2011 automatic, shifting at 7300 RPM.
10.93? Is the happy gas car to which you've referred a V6??? This makes no sense to me, unless you've referred to a GT.

If a V6, then show us a video!
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If a V6, then show us a video!
Hear, hear. Me too. Must be the 5.0.

In a similar vein, you won't break the old 4.6 in the bone stock 03-04 Mach 1 by buzzing it to 6800 or 7000, but neither will the timeslips get any better after 6000 or 6200 as a drag shift point. Of course, it has regular constant cam timing, but once you hit a HP peak determined by either head/intake flow or cam design, you truly have reached the point of diminishing returns, also known in system engineering as "you're fooling yourself."
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post #13 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011 Thread Starter
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Exclamation 7,000 rpm shift point with my BAMA tune...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AMChrisRose View Post
Absolutely, the higher you spin it, the smaller your tolerances get. With the new 4V, there's no issue with bumping up the factory redline a little. We typically set shifts at 7000-7300 depending on which tune you're running. 7500 is where I'd put my foot down. We don't send any 7500RPM tunes out, because we don't feel that last few hundred RPM are doing anything for you (and dyno results back that up). We run 10.93 with a baby shot of nitrous (100 shot), CAI, 4.10 gears and exhaust with our 2011 automatic, shifting at 7300 RPM.
Good to know, but confusing. I believe AM indicated my shift point was 7,000 rpm but if I remember correctly at that point the tach turns red even though the tach goes to 7500? So is Ford warning me at 7K that I have almost hit the actual redline of 7,500? If 7K IS the redline and the shift point is set to 7K aren't I shifitng in the red? :?: p.s. AM BAMA tunes really rock and wake up this lil 6er big-time!

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post #14 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011 Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for your take on my tach! Good information!

2011 V6 3.7, 3.55 gears, Pony Pkg, Kona Blue, JLT CAI box & cone w/MMR CAI tube. Magnaflow perf/st axle-backs & MF uni x-pipe w/fab mid-pipes. BMR Shortys & 73mm? throttle body w/matching spacer. Whiteline SOLID front & rear sway-bars. Heat shield manifold to eng. Accel coils w/Pulstar plugs. 4 bolts ea side strut tower brace. Have SCT tuner w/91S, 91P, 91R BAMA tunes. Currently using Diablosport Trinity 1000 w/91 octane Dyno-Tune . Soon BMC Black Mamba carbon fiber hood.
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post #15 of 22 (permalink) Old 02-21-2011 Thread Starter
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Thumbs up 9,000 rpms...

Quote:
Originally Posted by V6 Cannonballer View Post
Both the factory and the Bama tunes actually "bog" the car a bit at greater than 7500K. You can't accelerate any higher as the computer will not let you. It will momentarily feel as if the engine has stalled and might scare the willies out of you the first time you do it. This is a decent "fail safe" to keep you out of the high end of the red zone and spare your engine.

Interestingly, the 2012 Boss' tach is mechanically limited at 9,000 RPM but that's a whole different story.
Yeah, yesterday I watched the Daytona 500 and heard them say they accel to 9K and keep it stuck to the floor!!! So, racing engines, street turbos, etc., some go very high indeed.


2011 V6 3.7, 3.55 gears, Pony Pkg, Kona Blue, JLT CAI box & cone w/MMR CAI tube. Magnaflow perf/st axle-backs & MF uni x-pipe w/fab mid-pipes. BMR Shortys & 73mm? throttle body w/matching spacer. Whiteline SOLID front & rear sway-bars. Heat shield manifold to eng. Accel coils w/Pulstar plugs. 4 bolts ea side strut tower brace. Have SCT tuner w/91S, 91P, 91R BAMA tunes. Currently using Diablosport Trinity 1000 w/91 octane Dyno-Tune . Soon BMC Black Mamba carbon fiber hood.
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