I wonder if 1000 hp is possible with the 3.7? - Page 5 - Ford Mustang Forum
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ENOUGH!! What we have here is some very intelligent people going from disagreeing about something which is OK, right to personal attacks. Which is NOT OK.


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I think what he was trying to say is a 1000hp GTR is not even doubling the stock output, but a 1000hp 3.7 is almost 3.5 times the output... If we make the GTR ~1900hp (3.5 times stock) it would last about as long as a 1000hp 3.7...

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I think what he was trying to say is a 1000hp GTR is not even doubling the stock output, but a 1000hp 3.7 is almost 3.5 times the output... If we make the GTR ~1900hp (3.5 times stock) it would last about as long as a 1000hp 3.7...

That is EXACTLY what he is saying!!.....And it is a 100% sound Statement!,.....This whole conversation is getting rediculous!.....The truth of the matter has already been brought up, If your endgame is 1,000 BHP. then you should start with the 3.5 L variant of Fords 6 Cylinder TiVCT, as that Block is built for Higher Cylinder pressures not to mention that the Block itself is a much more Stout Unit in just about every aspect Period!
We all realize that the OP's Builders intend on using Main Bearing Strengthening Girdles (To prevent Main bearing cap walk) But what Intense is saying that even still, no matter what, or how much you fortify it, the 3.7 Block will NOT Last at those Power levels, And I for one Agree!!.....If you Start with the 3.5's Block (which is able to handle 500BHP All day Long, in Stock Form, as people are achieving this much power by raising Boost) As this 3.5 L variant has much thicker Bulkheads, thicker webbing, in just about every place feasible, Much better head bolts, with twice the clamping force...Heck even the Front timing cover is reportedly 1.5 times stronger, not to mention that the Block itself is poured with a much better Grade of Aluminum (just as the 5.0 Roadrunners Heads are a tougher Grade compared to the 5.0 Coyotes Head material) Again it was NEVER stated that a 3.7 L Mustang engine could not be built to produce 1,000 BHP!....It was Stated that after ALL that coin that would be needed to make said Power.....The 3.7 L Block is the WRONG Block to use!!.....Especially when you could Start with a Much Better Block!...The 3.5 L Ecoboost variant!........

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Reilly View Post
That is EXACTLY what he is saying!!.....And it is a 100% sound Statement!,.....This whole conversation is getting rediculous!.....The truth of the matter has already been brought up, If your endgame is 1,000 BHP. then you should start with the 3.5 L variant of Fords 6 Cylinder TiVCT, as that Block is built for Higher Cylinder pressures not to mention that the Block itself is a much more Stout Unit in just about every aspect Period!
We all realize that the OP's Builders intend on using Main Bearing Strengthening Girdles (To prevent Main bearing cap walk) But what Intense is saying that even still, no matter what, or how much you fortify it, the 3.7 Block will NOT Last at those Power levels, And I for one Agree!!.....If you Start with the 3.5's Block (which is able to handle 500BHP All day Long, in Stock Form, as people are achieving this much power by raising Boost) As this 3.5 L variant has much thicker Bulkheads, thicker webbing, in just about every place feasible, Much better head bolts, with twice the clamping force...Heck even the Front timing cover is reportedly 1.5 times stronger, not to mention that the Block itself is poured with a much better Grade of Aluminum (just as the 5.0 Roadrunners Heads are a tougher Grade compared to the 5.0 Coyotes Head material) Again it was NEVER stated that a 3.7 L Mustang engine could not be built to produce 1,000 BHP!....It was Stated that after ALL that coin that would be needed to make said Power.....The 3.7 L Block is the WRONG Block to use!!.....Especially when you could Start with a Much Better Block!...The 3.5 L Ecoboost variant!........

Sean.
Well said. Thank you.
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I completely agree with Intense on this matter. I misunderstood what he was getting at when he joined in this thread. He is correct that this engine will blow at these levels and why. I took it personal when he was giving true information that will be limiting factors for this engine.

My official statement on this subject is:

The 3.7 can be built to make 1000bhp BUT it will kill itself in a limited but not known amount of time with sustained use at those levels.

This is the reason that in my build we are using a boost controller to adjust the power levels for the types of racing and power needed to accomplish our goals. If someone does build a 3.7 into these ultra high power levels and just beat the living hell out of it on a daily basis then yes you will end up blowing a very large sum of money in very short order.

My reasons for building the 3.7 to these levels are much different than why most people will want to do it. I dont drag race often but i do roll race. I mostly run road course and will be setting a personal goal for 200mph in this car at the Texas Mile next year, which is about the only time that full power, so to speak, will be needed. If I make it cool but if not then that is when I look for new things to get me to my goal. Again I am not saying that this current build will make 1000bhp this time. We are looking for 700rwhp/700rwtq right now. That should yield around 850bhp. That alone will suffice for what I want to do with this car racing and for what my new sponsor is looking to test with. I do however plan on hitting the 1000bhp mark with the 3.7 in the future. Just for bragging rights and to pull new sponsor monies into the fold for future projects.

My apologies to Intense if I came off being crass. I do hold high respect for your accomplishments in life and with your work on the 3.7. Soon we will need more guys like you to help navigate the unknown of these power levels on this engine.

Oh and I don't think the use of different engines really needs to come into play in this conversation. If that is an argument then just slap a Y2J Supra power plant in your car.



So which CAI do you guys think will be the best to run on my setup?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloBusa View Post
I completely agree with Intense on this matter. I misunderstood what he was getting at when he joined in this thread. He is correct that this engine will blow at these levels and why. I took it personal when he was giving true information that will be limiting factors for this engine.

My official statement on this subject is:

The 3.7 can be built to make 1000bhp BUT it will kill itself in a limited but not known amount of time with sustained use at those levels.

This is the reason that in my build we are using a boost controller to adjust the power levels for the types of racing and power needed to accomplish our goals. If someone does build a 3.7 into these ultra high power levels and just beat the living hell out of it on a daily basis then yes you will end up blowing a very large sum of money in very short order.

My reasons for building the 3.7 to these levels are much different than why most people will want to do it. I dont drag race often but i do roll race. I mostly run road course and will be setting a personal goal for 200mph in this car at the Texas Mile next year, which is about the only time that full power, so to speak, will be needed. If I make it cool but if not then that is when I look for new things to get me to my goal. Again I am not saying that this current build will make 1000bhp this time. We are looking for 700rwhp/700rwtq right now. That should yield around 850bhp. That alone will suffice for what I want to do with this car racing and for what my new sponsor is looking to test with. I do however plan on hitting the 1000bhp mark with the 3.7 in the future. Just for bragging rights and to pull new sponsor monies into the fold for future projects.

My apologies to Intense if I came off being crass. I do hold high respect for your accomplishments in life and with your work on the 3.7. Soon we will need more guys like you to help navigate the unknown of these power levels on this engine.

Oh and I don't think the use of different engines really needs to come into play in this conversation. If that is an argument then just slap a Y2J Supra power plant in your car.



So which CAI do you guys think will be the best to run on my setup?
And that's a reasonable response sir. That's all I was looking to do was offer an educated opinion on what to anticipate. If you know the possibilities going into it, then I've done what I wanted to do. I wish you better fortune on your endeavors as a 200mph FI v6 will be great to see!

CAI, lol.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Reilly View Post
That is EXACTLY what he is saying!!.....And it is a 100% sound Statement!,.....This whole conversation is getting rediculous!.....The truth of the matter has already been brought up, If your endgame is 1,000 BHP. then you should start with the 3.5 L variant of Fords 6 Cylinder TiVCT, as that Block is built for Higher Cylinder pressures not to mention that the Block itself is a much more Stout Unit in just about every aspect Period!
We all realize that the OP's Builders intend on using Main Bearing Strengthening Girdles (To prevent Main bearing cap walk) But what Intense is saying that even still, no matter what, or how much you fortify it, the 3.7 Block will NOT Last at those Power levels, And I for one Agree!!.....If you Start with the 3.5's Block (which is able to handle 500BHP All day Long, in Stock Form, as people are achieving this much power by raising Boost) As this 3.5 L variant has much thicker Bulkheads, thicker webbing, in just about every place feasible, Much better head bolts, with twice the clamping force...Heck even the Front timing cover is reportedly 1.5 times stronger, not to mention that the Block itself is poured with a much better Grade of Aluminum (just as the 5.0 Roadrunners Heads are a tougher Grade compared to the 5.0 Coyotes Head material) Again it was NEVER stated that a 3.7 L Mustang engine could not be built to produce 1,000 BHP!....It was Stated that after ALL that coin that would be needed to make said Power.....The 3.7 L Block is the WRONG Block to use!!.....Especially when you could Start with a Much Better Block!...The 3.5 L Ecoboost variant!........

Sean.
This IS getting ridiculous!

The OP simply mused if the 3.7 could be built to produce 1000 hp like the very tweaked Hyndai.
Somewhere along the line Solobusa says he's back in the game, this time he has a financial (technical?) supporter and that his goal is 1000 crank horsepower.

That's when the personal attacks started. Even the moderators are in it now.
He is aware of the challenges, maybe more than anyone. I don't know the details of his engine building plans, but I do know is he is a leader and he shares lots of good information on this forum. Others are great contributors also and I appreciate their contributions too.

Solo wants to build a 3.7 and I'm tickled pink! I'm interested in what a 3.5 can produce but the 3.7 is in my Mustang so I have far more interest in it's potential.

Go get em Solo!!

Never argue with an idiot........They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
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This IS getting ridiculous!

The OP simply mused if the 3.7 could be built to produce 1000 hp like the very tweaked Hyndai.
Somewhere along the line Solobusa says he's back in the game, this time he has a financial (technical?) supporter and that his goal is 1000 crank horsepower.

That's when the personal attacks started. Even the moderators are in it now.
He is aware of the challenges, maybe more than anyone. I don't know the details of his engine building plans, but I do know is he is a leader and he shares lots of good information on this forum. Others are great contributors also and I appreciate their contributions too.

Solo wants to build a 3.7 and I'm tickled pink! I'm interested in what a 3.5 can produce but the 3.7 is in my Mustang so I have far more interest in it's potential.

Go get em Solo!!
Late to the Party Again! I see everyones made up in the time I've taken to type a "hunt-and-peck" response.

Now lets all speculate how long the Hynda will last!

Never argue with an idiot........They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
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post #69 of 112 (permalink) Old 09-27-2013 Thread Starter
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Late to the Party Again! I see everyones made up in the time I've taken to type a "hunt-and-peck" response.

Now lets all speculate how long the Hynda will last!

It probably already blew up!

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if you are willing to completely junk your car and spend some serious $ then sure . Who needs that kind of power anyway.... and why would you even do that to a v6 haha just use that money to get a v8 much simpler to do these mods to......
Key word "simpler" means everyone can do that where if Solo comes even close to his goal he will be a pioneer! Some of us are driven by challenge while others sit idly watching life pass and flowing in the path or normalcy.

Don't be a
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From a shop perspective...So what if an engine builder who IS competent tells someone much less knowledgeable "Sure, I can do that!"...takes your money and then blames something else as to why it blew up or didn't make the goal.

There's plenty of "pioneer" left in me but due to what I know...there's a limit to how far I'd try pushing a stock block because I don't have money to burn yet. I'd like to be able to enjoy it long enough to do what I want it to do. It's caution based on knowledge and experience. Perhaps there will be an aftermarket block capable of 4+ liters one day like the Buick GN guys have around.
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I'm considering doing the opposite of 1000hp

I'm going to take the 3.7 liter engine and reduce it to a 1 liter engine, mold the block in thin copper or just tin, and see if I can get it to only 10 total HP.

I figure I can do the Quarter mile if I start today by 2025.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense View Post
From a shop perspective...So what if an engine builder who IS competent tells someone much less knowledgeable "Sure, I can do that!"...takes your money and then blames something else as to why it blew up or didn't make the goal.

There's plenty of "pioneer" left in me but due to what I know...there's a limit to how far I'd try pushing a stock block because I don't have money to burn yet. I'd like to be able to enjoy it long enough to do what I want it to do. It's caution based on knowledge and experience. Perhaps there will be an aftermarket block capable of 4+ liters one day like the Buick GN guys have around.
Billet Aluminum with full water jackets and Nikasil plating, 3.94" bore, 3'94" stroke- 4.7L/288CI and safe to 30 PSI. Give or take a few .01" on the bore and stroke possibilities of course, but i've been reasonably assured the bore spacing on this block would allow for nearly 4" if properly built. I believe the block would have to be taller to get the stroke out of it unfortunately.

That being said, if enough people pioneered, that would run $9000. I imagine smaller bore with a more standard liner would be a fair bit cheaper. Sounds like a lot for a v6, but imagine being able to put built coyote power potential into any modern ford v6 engine.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense View Post
From a shop perspective...So what if an engine builder who IS competent tells someone much less knowledgeable "Sure, I can do that!"...takes your money and then blames something else as to why it blew up or didn't make the goal.

There's plenty of "pioneer" left in me but due to what I know...there's a limit to how far I'd try pushing a stock block because I don't have money to burn yet. I'd like to be able to enjoy it long enough to do what I want it to do. It's caution based on knowledge and experience. Perhaps there will be an aftermarket block capable of 4+ liters one day like the Buick GN guys have around.
Sounds like your in the business Intense.
I was too and I faced many customers with some pretty "interesting" ideas. I would listen then put forward my more rational recommendations. Most times the client would listen but, now and then one would come along that just wants to try it his way.
If the guy had the funds and realized the risks, I'd give it a shot. I'd often learn something along the way too. The shop owner as you described doesn't sound like you or any other reasonable builder out there. Sounds more like a liar and a thief.

Haven't you ever swam against the current and had a success? I sure have.

Never argue with an idiot........They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!
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Quote:
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Sounds like your in the business Intense.
I was too and I faced many customers with some pretty "interesting" ideas. I would listen then put forward my more rational recommendations. Most times the client would listen but, now and then one would come along that just wants to try it his way.
If the guy had the funds and realized the risks, I'd give it a shot. I'd often learn something along the way too. The shop owner as you described doesn't sound like you or any other reasonable builder out there. Sounds more like a liar and a thief.

Haven't you ever swam against the current and had a success? I sure have.
A combination of that and other business ventures I've taken. I gave up on the machining after two years...no money in it unless you find a job with a NASCAR team and even then, you're at the mercy of losing the contract and left hanging in the wind looking for another team to work for. No stability. Pay is much better though! It's something a younger guy with no family should get into.

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