Electrical whizzes - help please - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-05-2013 Thread Starter
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Electrical whizzes - help please

So I want to rig a low speed fan switch instead of jumping the contacts in the panel since I already melted a wire doing so which almost fried my panel. Below are 360deg pics of the relay. Is there any way I can wire in a switch which I attach to the outside of the relay to turn the fan on and off while the car is not running to cool it in staging?













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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013
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Simply wire in a toggle switch to bypass the relay. Like a jumper wire with a switch in it.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trustyrusty436 View Post
Simply wire in a toggle switch to bypass the relay. Like a jumper wire with a switch in it.
I knew that much, guess I should have been clearer. HOW do I do that, meaning where do I solder the wires to that are coming off of the switch?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013
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Look at the Ford Service manual? http://iihs.net/fsm/?dir=710&viewfil...ling%20Fan.pdf
You have 2 relays for the cooling fan: One high speed the other low.
You can relate the wiring diagrams pin numbers directly to your relay (they are both the same relay) I am going to guess you can take it from there.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
Look at the Ford Service manual? Ford Service Manuals - Wiring Diagrams
You have 2 relays for the cooling fan: One high speed the other low.
You can relate the wiring diagrams pin numbers directly to your relay (they are both the same relay) I am going to guess you can take it from there.
LOL, actually I had the manual but I do not know which lead to solder to and where to make that connection from the switch to the relay. This is why I posted the 360deg pics so someone could talk to me like they are telling their 10 year old how to do it. I am clueless when it comes to electrical beyond splicing wires and soldering.

I assume based on the schematic that I jump one wire from the switch to contact 30 and the other to contact 87? BUT where do I attach the wire where it will not interfere with normal operation of the low speed fan when the switch is in the open position? Should I solder the wire to the external male terminals of the relay or to some point on the inside of the relay?
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandToSea View Post
LOL, actually I had the manual but I do not know which lead to solder to and where to make that connection from the switch to the relay. This is why I posted the 360deg pics so someone could talk to me like they are telling their 10 year old how to do it. I am clueless when it comes to electrical beyond splicing wires and soldering.

I assume based on the schematic that I jump one wire from the switch to contact 30 and the other to contact 87? BUT where do I attach the wire where it will not interfere with normal operation of the low speed fan when the switch is in the open position? Should I solder the wire to the external male terminals of the relay or to some point on the inside of the relay?
Personally I would "piggy back" the fan relay on the high amp side (pins 30 and 87) IE: Directly connect your piggy back relays pins 30 and 87 to the stock relays pin 30 and 87 respectively with some high amp wire (something that will hold on a 40 amp circuit)

Then you can use your piggy back relays pins 86 and 85 to toggle the circuit with no interconnection to the PCM.

DO NOT ATTACH ANYTHING TO THE STOCK RELAYS PINS 86 OR 85 YOU COULD POTENTIALLY DAMAGE YOUR PCM!

On your piggy back relay you would then send 12v positive through a switch to pin 86 with pin 85 attached to ground to turn the fan on at any time regardless of temp.

What this will do is basically create a redundant high amp circuit allowing your stock relay to function as normal and your piggy backed relay to toggle the fan on even when the PCM is off or the temperature sensor does not signal a high enough engine temp to trigger the fan.

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In a perfect system meant for this purpose you might also think about incorporating an electric water pump to circulate the coolant while you are cooling with the engine off. But then of course you are adding a little weight as well as other potential areas for leaks to occur.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
In a perfect system meant for this purpose you might also think about incorporating an electric water pump to circulate the coolant while you are cooling with the engine off. But then of course you are adding a little weight as well as other potential areas for leaks to occur.
I will just turn the car over every 3-5 minutes to circulate the coolant and then turn the fan back on with the car off but yes that would be the perfect setup!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
Personally I would "piggy back" the fan relay on the high amp side (pins 30 and 87) IE: Directly connect your piggy back relays pins 30 and 87 to the stock relays pin 30 and 87 respectively with some high amp wire (something that will hold on a 40 amp circuit)

Then you can use your piggy back relays pins 86 and 85 to toggle the circuit with no interconnection to the PCM.

DO NOT ATTACH ANYTHING TO THE STOCK RELAYS PINS 86 OR 85 YOU COULD POTENTIALLY DAMAGE YOUR PCM!

On your piggy back relay you would then send 12v positive through a switch to pin 86 with pin 85 attached to ground to turn the fan on at any time regardless of temp.

What this will do is basically create a redundant high amp circuit allowing your stock relay to function as normal and your piggy backed relay to toggle the fan on even when the PCM is off or the temperature sensor does not signal a high enough engine temp to trigger the fan.
THANKS! That is a nice thorough and technical explanation that likely covers all the details! My issue is that I feel like an idiot because if that is how you would explain it to a 10 year old I must be WETODDIT....

My lack of understanding is likely to elicit a response that this is beyond my skill level. BUT if explained as one would write instruction for the general public to follow I would be fine.

I will ask one of my stereo wiring enthusiast guys to help interpret. Thanks for the tech info to get started though!
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You have the basic idea that you want to use a "switch" on pins 30 and 87 (to open or close the circuit) which will run the fan but that is a high amp (40 amp) circuit which is what burned up your jumper wire.

If you found a 40 amp switch and used heavy enough gauge wire (wire gauge will need to be at least what is running to the fan itself) it would work... but I doubt you will be able to find a 40 amp "switch" that's where the relay comes in...

The relay allows the high amp circuit to be controlled with a low amp switch (5 amp) on pins 86 and 85.

In the stock diagram pin 86 is hot 12v 5amp wherever the key is on (when the PCM is on) pin 85 is what the PCM is using to control the relay BUT you can't simply ground pin 85 (DO NOT DO THIS) without risking damage to your PCM.

So I guess I am not sure how else to explain (sorry I am not a very good teacher)

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
You have the basic idea that you want to use a "switch" on pins 30 and 87 (to open or close the circuit) which will run the fan but that is a high amp (40 amp) circuit which is what burned up your jumper wire.

If you found a 40 amp switch and used heavy enough gauge wire (wire gauge will need to be at least what is running to the fan itself) it would work... but I doubt you will be able to find a 40 amp "switch" that's where the relay comes in...

The relay allows the high amp circuit to be controlled with a low amp switch (5 amp) on pins 86 and 85.

In the stock diagram pin 86 is hot 12v 5amp wherever the key is on (when the PCM is on) pin 85 is what the PCM is using to control the relay BUT you can't simply ground pin 85 (DO NOT DO THIS) without risking damage to your PCM.

So I guess I am not sure how else to explain (sorry I am not a very good teacher)
It makes much more sense to me now. Thanks for the clarification!
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-06-2013 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
You have the basic idea that you want to use a "switch" on pins 30 and 87 (to open or close the circuit) which will run the fan but that is a high amp (40 amp) circuit which is what burned up your jumper wire.

If you found a 40 amp switch and used heavy enough gauge wire (wire gauge will need to be at least what is running to the fan itself) it would work... but I doubt you will be able to find a 40 amp "switch" that's where the relay comes in...

The relay allows the high amp circuit to be controlled with a low amp switch (5 amp) on pins 86 and 85.

In the stock diagram pin 86 is hot 12v 5amp wherever the key is on (when the PCM is on) pin 85 is what the PCM is using to control the relay BUT you can't simply ground pin 85 (DO NOT DO THIS) without risking damage to your PCM.

So I guess I am not sure how else to explain (sorry I am not a very good teacher)
Could I use a switch like this?

http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3042775

OR

40A Safety Switch DIN Rail 1 Pole Mini Circuit Breaker | eBay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandToSea View Post
Think that one would work best for automotive use... nice find by the way!
You will need to get some wire that will also hold the 40amps (that's what the circuit is fused for anyway)
Then you can tie into pin 30 and 87 and close the circuit at will!
Be careful routing the wire though so it has no risk of abrading the shielding over time.

Oxford White 2015 Premium GT with 50-Year Pkg | 3.55 Gears | Roush CAI (105mm Velocity tube) | Stainless Works Headers (Jet-Hot ceramic coated), high flow cats, H-Pipe CatBack full 3" with 4" tips| BAMA V2 93 Octane Tune | Baer EradiSpeed-Plus 2-Piece Rotors | JLT 3.0 Oil Separators | FRPP M-20201-M STB | Silver PP Wheels 19x9, 19x9.5 | NITTO G2 255-40-19, 275-40-19 Tires | J&M Jacking Rails & Subframe Alignment Kit | Steeda Subframe Connectors & Bushing Supports | BMR Front Subframe Brace | Cervinis 1232 Functional Ram Air hood | Ford Performance door sills | White Madness Garage Chrome Shifter | Diode Dynamics interior LED conversion stage 1 & XP80 reverse light | 3M Dark Ceramic Tint (25% sides/20% rear) | Lloyds "50 Years" floor and trunk mats...

Performance White 2012 Premium Pony Package | Torsen T2R 4:1 TBR | FRPP 3.73 Gears | GT500 Differential Cover | DSS 3.8" Carbon Fiber DS | Airaid CAI | BAMA 93R tune | Baer DecelaRotors (drilled/slotted) | BMR Adjustable Panhard & Brace | JLT Oil Separator | Boss 302 STB | Nexen N3000 255-45-ZR18Y tires | PP Engine Cover | 25% Tint

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012v6Pony View Post
Think that one would work best for automotive use... nice find by the way!
You will need to get some wire that will also hold the 40amps (that's what the circuit is fused for anyway)
Then you can tie into pin 30 and 87 and close the circuit at will!
Be careful routing the wire though so it has no risk of abrading the shielding over time.
I did it and it works ;-) I will post details tomorrow...
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013 Thread Starter
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Thanks for the guidance 2012V6Pony! Here is the finished product.


















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