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post #20 of (permalink) Old 11-24-2010
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Joined: Apr 2010
Location: Malvern
Posts: 2,245
Originally Posted by shinerstang View Post
Chris, I'm not doubting your expertise to do a mail order tune. I am saying that a remote tune is not as good as a roller tune-especially with a power adder. How many times do you want him to send you lean tunes before you get it right? 2? 3? That's the point I was trying to make. If you are not on the rollers, you do not have the ability to have someone wave you off when you do go lean. Hyper pistons, nitrous, and lean are a bad combination. He also does not have a wideband. I will also not question how many V6's you have done. One-step colder plugs are essential when going with a 75 shot on a V6. It might not be on a V8, but a V6, it is. Nitrous/fuel pills are totally different than a V8 setup. Our V6 cars do not fit into any particular category, and cannot be treated as such.....

Our cars have seen considerable dyno time, so I'm not talking just to hear myself......
Oh, I'm not saying you are. But why would he start lean? Our transfer functions are spot-on, and we command a little rich. The only reason that he would be lean is if he had mechanical failure. Even if someone were tuning his car on the spot, a mechanical failure isn't going to change.

One step colder plugs are recommended on a GT with a 100 shot or above, and yes - 75 shot or above it's a good idea for the V6's.

I'm not trying to argue with you, just explain where we come from and why forced induction can be just as precise mail-order as many dyno tunes.

I think many people are afraid of going lean. When I first started tuning Mustangs, I was scared of leaning someones car out, too. Soon enough, I realized a lot of that was hype. Intentional hype, coming from dyno tuners to make it sound like our job was a bunch harder than it was. It also came from customers concerns. It also came from your friends, friends, friends idiot buddy who blamed a tuner for "leaning his car out". It could have even come from a friends, friends, friends buddy who's tuner WAS actually the idiot, LOL! There are many ways those things get started. Many people still think nitrous is dangerous because a couple moron foxbody owners back in the 70's, 80's, 90's trashed their motors with it.

If you always error on the high side of the MAF calibration and command a slightly rich AFR, you'll always be in good shape unless you have a mechanical issue.

The MAF calibration literally tells the car how much air is going in at a certain MAF voltage point. This is how it calculates engine load. Engine load then calculates fueling. So, if you tell it that it's going to have an extra percentage or two #/min of air going by the MAF sensor, it will give you an extra percentage or two load or #/min and in turn, extra % or two fuel. If you command 11.5 when you'd be happy with 11.7, this means your first pull should be about 11.4 or 11.3. This is, assuming that you've got a good starting point. I have a good starting point because I've built a really good database, and so has Mike Wilson. So, if anything you can pull that percentage back out (lean it out a tad), and command 11.7 and make 11.7 on your second pull.

I guess what I'm saying is that it depends on who's tuning the car. Of course it's important to get a wideband air/fuel ratio printout to verify that the car is actually achieving its commanded air/fuel. However, if your database is good (experience) and you have the tune set up properly, mail-order tuning can be a breeze.

I've seen mail-order tunes put some dyno tunes to shame. Again, it all depends who. There's VERY few people in the country I'd ever let tune my car. That list is myself, Mike Wilson, Chris Johnson @ SCT, Jerry, Jon Lund, Justin @ VMP, Eric Brooks, Lito, Manuel @ Tudyno, Adam @ ST, Chris Johnson @ Edelbrock, and Paul Meister, Adam @ Pops, [email protected] That's it. They're spread around the country quite a bit, but that's about 10 competing tuners, and a few that do it elsewhere, or colleagues that I'd feel comfortable with. If they're not on that list, I wouldn't give them my car. Why? I know they'll put the same amount of detail and effort in. My car will have the same "clean" timing curve, proper VCT calibration, drive-by-wire, etc. I'd let every one of them mail-order my car, even if it were supercharged, turbocharged, nitrous, etc.

I know this rant is long-winded, but I promise - we're actually working on something to SHOW what I'm talking about and not just keep repeating it.

Thanks for hearing me out!

Chris Rose |
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