Got the 4V Swap Dyno-Tuned (finally) - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017 Thread Starter
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Got the 4V Swap Dyno-Tuned (finally)

Finally got my GT into the dyno to get it properly tuned for the 4V. I've just been running an email BAMA 'close enough' tune since I got her running about a year ago, but have more urgent repairs to do since (rear torque box / control arms, ball joints).

Did a base run with the BAMA tune and made 290 / 284. The AF ratio looked like ####.

After a couple runs he got it up to 302 / 309, and suggested I should upgrade/replace the fuel pump because it couldn't keep up (AF always dips after 5k). Guess that'll be something to do next summer. Day and night difference in driving though, and it wasn't even that bad before.








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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-14-2017
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Good numbers. With your 98 Intake cams and longtubes I was thinking you might be up closer to 320 but still those are very good numbers man. 4Vs are where it's at when it comes to NA with these 4.6s. My bama tunes were always SUPER Rich...like 10-11:1 AFR on an NA setup, it was ridiculous.


Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

1997 Lincoln Town Car, PI Intake/Cams, Sofa-On-Wheels, "Fat Tony" we call it

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017 Thread Starter
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Yeah i was guessing closer to 320 too, but i think the fuel pump might be a big part of that. You can see the HP level off at the same point the AF dips, and thats even with the tuner trying to compensate for it. I think he said the fuel pressure also dropped to around 12-15 at the higher RPMs. I'll have to change it out in the summer, run it again, and see how it improves. I don't know if that'd account for a ~20hp difference though.

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2007 Mustang GT - 5-Speed, Airaid CAI, 4.10s
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe, 4.10s 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017
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Peak numbers definitely don't tell the whole story, that across the board curve really affects the driving.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HuntingKy View Post
Peak numbers definitely don't tell the whole story, that across the board curve really affects the driving.
It is still a very noticeable improvement. I got around 20 more ft-lbs of torque across the board, that definitely makes a difference. But there's still something funny happening around 5k and after.

After thinking more about it, I'm not sure if he was right about it being the pump (but I could be wrong). If it's the pump wouldn't it pull the AF ratio up instead of dropping? And in the base pull it didn't have the drop, it was low everywhere else and shot up after 5k. Also the SCT shows my fuel pressure keeping around 40 after 5k, though I haven't checked it at WOT yet. Any other opinions on what could be going on?

He mentioned something about the injectors 'staticing out' because the fuel pressure dropped, but I dont know enough about injectors to fully understand what was going on. I think I'm going to take it back in next week under the guise of having him get rid of the infamous hanging idle I now have, and ask him more about it.

Present
2007 Mustang GT - 5-Speed, Airaid CAI, 4.10s
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe, 4.10s 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes

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1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017
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It gets rich around 5k...we would need more data to look at...AIT, MAF counts, Voltage, etc...

Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

1997 Lincoln Town Car, PI Intake/Cams, Sofa-On-Wheels, "Fat Tony" we call it

2001 GT Convertible - D1SC / Geared / Cammed / 440wh 400wt - TOTALED 2/2019
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-15-2017
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I think you're right. If the pump can't keep up, you'd be getting more air in the top end, causing it to be lean.

My stock pump with 30lb injectors was more than enough for my N/A 2v build. Nearly 12:1 CR, ported PI heads, 270s, TFS intake, long tubes, putting down 330rwhp.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-19-2017 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR2006 View Post
It gets rich around 5k...we would need more data to look at...AIT, MAF counts, Voltage, etc...
I got a datalog file if you wouldn't mind taking a look at it, JonR2006 (or anyone else). Did a WOT pull in 2nd gear. It actually does loose pressure up high, along with a rich condition, which doesn't make any sense to me.
Attached Files
File Type: csv datalog1.csv (347.0 KB, 27 views)

Present
2007 Mustang GT - 5-Speed, Airaid CAI, 4.10s
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe, 4.10s 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
I got a datalog file if you wouldn't mind taking a look at it, JonR2006 (or anyone else). Did a WOT pull in 2nd gear. It actually does loose pressure up high, along with a rich condition, which doesn't make any sense to me.
You fuel pump is maxed out around 5K RPM (FPDC is at .49xxx which means means the pump is close to 100%). Look at Rows 166-172. It does go rich which you can see in the STFTs and then leans out again. (those numbers are % to what the commanding lamba is in the tune).

I am comfortable saying your pump needs to be upgraded. It is commonly accepted to stay around 80-85% FPDC (which would be .400-.425 in the datalog).

Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

1997 Lincoln Town Car, PI Intake/Cams, Sofa-On-Wheels, "Fat Tony" we call it

2001 GT Convertible - D1SC / Geared / Cammed / 440wh 400wt - TOTALED 2/2019
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Awesome, thanks for looking. Just good to have a second opinion. I'll plan to do that in the spring / summer then.

Any thoughts on how much power the pump might be costing me?

Present
2007 Mustang GT - 5-Speed, Airaid CAI, 4.10s
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe, 4.10s 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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Hey Jon, what are you using to view that datalog?

1998 GT
Rebuild in the works. New crank, 2013 Boss rods, srp .020 over flat top pistons with valve reliefs, 12:1 compression, ported pi heads, comp xe278ah cams.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwarrior1016 View Post
Hey Jon, what are you using to view that datalog?
I just downloaded the CSV from the site and look at the raw data in excel. Hid some columns. Not super user friendly but it's how I look at all my datalogs. Let me know if you see something I may have misread or am completely off on. I don't read logs very often but I am data guy and know how to read data so it's not too bad for me to interpret numbers especially when I know what numbers mean (which I do mostly from an SCT datalog file).

OP, can you confirm this is from SCT LiveLink?

Matthew 26:52-54 / Go Pack Go!

1987 Mustang GT Hatchback - 2V Mod Swap In The Works

1997 Lincoln Town Car, PI Intake/Cams, Sofa-On-Wheels, "Fat Tony" we call it

2001 GT Convertible - D1SC / Geared / Cammed / 440wh 400wt - TOTALED 2/2019
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Yes, it is from Livelink.

Present
2007 Mustang GT - 5-Speed, Airaid CAI, 4.10s
2001 Mustang GT "Mock 1" - 5-Speed, 03 Mach 1 Swap, 98 Cobra Intake Cam Swap, BBK CAI & Longtube Headers w/ H-Pipe, 4.10s 302 rwhp / 310 ft-lbs
2015 Ford Fiesta - Wifes

Looking For
1981-82 Mustang Cobra/GT T-Top

Past
1984 Mustang GT T-Top - Bare Chassis
1984 Mustang GT350 - 302 / 5-Speed
1984 Mustang LX - 302 / 5-Speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR2006 View Post
I just downloaded the CSV from the site and look at the raw data in excel. Hid some columns. Not super user friendly but it's how I look at all my datalogs. Let me know if you see something I may have misread or am completely off on. I don't read logs very often but I am data guy and know how to read data so it's not too bad for me to interpret numbers especially when I know what numbers mean (which I do mostly from an SCT datalog file).

OP, can you confirm this is from SCT LiveLink?
Oh no, you got this one under control lol. Ive only ever dealt with megasquirt stuff and never even worked with a MAF. I mean, a lot of the info relates but I dont know anything specific with sct. Hell, Ive never even had a sct handheld. I went straight from a diablosport predator to megasquirt.

1998 GT
Rebuild in the works. New crank, 2013 Boss rods, srp .020 over flat top pistons with valve reliefs, 12:1 compression, ported pi heads, comp xe278ah cams.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonR2006 View Post
You fuel pump is maxed out around 5K RPM (FPDC is at .49xxx which means means the pump is close to 100%). Look at Rows 166-172. It does go rich which you can see in the STFTs and then leans out again. (those numbers are % to what the commanding lamba is in the tune).

I am comfortable saying your pump needs to be upgraded. It is commonly accepted to stay around 80-85% FPDC (which would be .400-.425 in the datalog).
This is right, If you look at lines in the mid 400's pressure across the injectors drop, the fuel trim on both banks drop, and the rail pressure drops. It pretty consistently dropped the more the RPM's went up though which is fine and just shows that you are reaching the top of that pump. They didn't leave much room for the early cobras and mach 1 guys as far as fuel goes. They use the same pump as the GT's with the terminator being the exception of course.

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