Projected build power - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019 Thread Starter
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Projected build power

I was wanting to ask all of you what you thought my 1997 mustang gt would make to the wheels. Mod list as stands. Engine - pi swap gt500 followers todd warren cams not degreed cam spec is .495 lift .259 int .261 exh 109 lobe sep typhoon intake mani termi 39# injectors 78mm bbk plenum egr delete pace setter long tube headers stock h pipe to flowmasters dumped at the axle cruise control delete ac delete s&b cai matching termi maf solid motor mounts. Trans- performance automatics 4r70w performance rebuild kit 3200 to 3500 road runner converter hardened stub shaft and extra clutch in the forward gear trans cooler installed with full out jmod . Suspension and brakes - upr tube kmember bmr tube a arms with raised ball joints and spring cups mm solid steering shaft stifflers trans crossmember kyb struts and shocks ford c springs j&m race rear control arms quad shock delete power stop z26 pad and rotor kit and j&m stainless steel brake lines. Tune - currently have pro lvl delta force tuning commando i have a innovate wide band lc1 with db gauge and the wide band is wired up to the ecu. My goal is 300 whp thats all i want to make thru a 4r70w. Think i can do it guys?

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-24-2019
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Savage, you are going to think I am picking on you with my response, but I am not. Was just talking with about 4 people in the last 3 days, about Mod Motors. In-depth discussions about why they are great, and also why they are not so great.

These engines can make SICK power. They have a really broad torque curve, and they just won't stop pulling on the top end. They take to boost like an old drunk to Crown Royal.

But here's where the goodness ends.

They are huge, bulky bastards. They are complicated, temperamental, and love to break down, after you've run 'em a few years. They make lots of sludge because of head design, and then they clog up their cam phasers and break. The two piece plug design stinks.

In short? They are firecrackers. They are super fun and make a lot of noise, and they're done.

So today my answer for you is "I don't give a damn, it's a stinking mod motor." But I think that just proves that I am getting to be a grumpy old man. =)

In a more detailed answer to your question though: Your injectors look a bit oversized for what you're doing, but they'll do. Solid motor mounts are strong, but man are they noisy. And don't just pop a tune out of a box and call it good if you really want to make power, especially since they typically have a 'one-size fits all' approach. Take it to a dyno, and have them REALLY tune your engine. Your transmission's pretty hardcore. Love the 4R70W. How's that high stall converter doing for you? With the lockup, I bet it does well even on the freeway, but I bet it feels like going into a new gear when it engages.

Lastly, If you can't hit 300 with your setup, I'd be shocked. =)


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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Savage, you are going to think I am picking on you with my response, but I am not. Was just talking with about 4 people in the last 3 days, about Mod Motors. In-depth discussions about why they are great, and also why they are not so great.

These engines can make SICK power. They have a really broad torque curve, and they just won't stop pulling on the top end. They take to boost like an old drunk to Crown Royal.

But here's where the goodness ends.

They are huge, bulky bastards. They are complicated, temperamental, and love to break down, after you've run 'em a few years. They make lots of sludge because of head design, and then they clog up their cam phasers and break. The two piece plug design stinks.

In short? They are firecrackers. They are super fun and make a lot of noise, and they're done.

So today my answer for you is "I don't give a damn, it's a stinking mod motor." But I think that just proves that I am getting to be a grumpy old man. 😃

In a more detailed answer to your question though: Your injectors look a bit oversized for what you're doing, but they'll do. Solid motor mounts are strong, but man are they noisy. And don't just pop a tune out of a box and call it good if you really want to make power, especially since they typically have a 'one-size fits all' approach. Take it to a dyno, and have them REALLY tune your engine. Your transmission's pretty hardcore. Love the 4R70W. How's that high stall converter doing for you? With the lockup, I bet it does well even on the freeway, but I bet it feels like going into a new gear when it engages.

Lastly, If you can't hit 300 with your setup, I'd be shocked. =)
i can still break the tires at 1800 . And i notice no difference in the lock up . My tuning software is pro lvl software its not a boxed tune i can change all the ecu settings on this software as well as change the timing and fuel tables. Car currently make 227 on the current setup .
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2019
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How did you determine the HP, and what RPMs were peak torque and peak HP at? Are you talking flywheel hp or RWHP?

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2019 Thread Starter
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How did you determine the HP, and what RPMs were peak torque and peak HP at? Are you talking flywheel hp or RWHP?
whp it was dynoed made 210 with stock injectors the switch to the 39# and the maf gave me 17 more hp
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2019 Thread Starter
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How did you determine the HP, and what RPMs were peak torque and peak HP at? Are you talking flywheel hp or RWHP?
it was 4800 rpm amd dropped off
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-25-2019
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Well, it sounds like you have a good supporting cast for your engine. Your intake and exhaust are fine, the injectors can supply way more fuel than you're using right now (19# is generally considered 'barely adequate' but functional for 300 N/A horsepower), and you have the means to monitor and control your fuel and spark just fine.

If you already had it professionally tuned, and that's where you're at, then you are probably at the limitation of your heads and cams. The 4 cam cobra engine in '97 only made 305 at the flywheel, which would probably put it just a few horses north of where your engine is right now.

300 *RWHP* may be a stretch for your early 2 valve heads! You could probably gain about 15 hp going to electric fans, and maybe another 5 using underdrive pulleys. Beyond that, I think you'd have to either improve the heads or go to boost. Nitrous is always an option too, but it does not always play nice with EFI manifolds, so definitely don't go with a 'wet' kit.

The '99+ PI heads would raise your compression quite a lot (I think around 10:1, with your pistons), and the better ports would definitely gain some horsepower too. Not sure your intake's ports will match the PI though. Was your intake made specifically for the older heads? If it'll work with the newer heads, then you might consider this. They are cheap and plentiful in junkyards. You'd probably gain an easy 40-60 horsepower, depending on how well everything plays together. Regardless, this would put you over 300 horsepower I think.

Speed's always expensive. At least your transmission should be able to handle it! Even in stock form, the 4R70W can take a lot of power, and yours is improved.

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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019 Thread Starter
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Well, it sounds like you have a good supporting cast for your engine. Your intake and exhaust are fine, the injectors can supply way more fuel than you're using right now (19# is generally considered 'barely adequate' but functional for 300 N/A horsepower), and you have the means to monitor and control your fuel and spark just fine.

If you already had it professionally tuned, and that's where you're at, then you are probably at the limitation of your heads and cams. The 4 cam cobra engine in '97 only made 305 at the flywheel, which would probably put it just a few horses north of where your engine is right now.

300 *RWHP* may be a stretch for your early 2 valve heads! You could probably gain about 15 hp going to electric fans, and maybe another 5 using underdrive pulleys. Beyond that, I think you'd have to either improve the heads or go to boost. Nitrous is always an option too, but it does not always play nice with EFI manifolds, so definitely don't go with a 'wet' kit.

The '99+ PI heads would raise your compression quite a lot (I think around 10:1, with your pistons), and the better ports would definitely gain some horsepower too. Not sure your intake's ports will match the PI though. Was your intake made specifically for the older heads? If it'll work with the newer heads, then you might consider this. They are cheap and plentiful in junkyards. You'd probably gain an easy 40-60 horsepower, depending on how well everything plays together. Regardless, this would put you over 300 horsepower I think.

Speed's always expensive. At least your transmission should be able to handle it! Even in stock form, the 4R70W can take a lot of power, and yours is improved.
it is pi head swaped 10.5 compression ratio
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019
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Aw dang. Well, you've got the extent of my meager Mod Motor knowledge and wisdom. Looks like you have a few different routes you could go: Boost, Nitrous, new heads, or ...


... drop in a Windsor and experience *real* power! (for many years!)


Seriously though, I wish you all the best, and hope you find your hidden horsepower.

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-26-2019 Thread Starter
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Aw dang. Well, you've got the extent of my meager Mod Motor knowledge and wisdom. Looks like you have a few different routes you could go: Boost, Nitrous, new heads, or ...


... drop in a Windsor and experience *real* power! (for many years!) [IMG class=inlineimg]/forums/images/AllFordMustangs-vbtoucan/smilies/tango_face_devil.png[/IMG]


Seriously though, I wish you all the best, and hope you find your hidden horsepower.
thinking about a 351 based 429
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You have plenty of room to actually put a 460 in there, too, if you wanted. Just keep in mind, those extra cubic inches are thirsty. And heavy. Even a 302 can very realistically make 300 RWHP for you. But a full engine and transmission swap to go from what you have to a junkyard 302 doesn't make much sense to me.



If I were you, I'd sit down and decide exactly how you see yourself driving the car, and what you want to use it for, because starting down a "Well, I just want it to be spirited, as I daily commute to work." road, and then switching to "I want it to boil the hides at 90 MPH without even dropping the clutch!" gets really expensive. Then make choices for your car based on that vision, and stick with it. A simple idea well-executed is almost always better than a radical idea done badly.

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