2002 GT no fuel - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018 Thread Starter
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2002 GT no fuel

I have a 2002 Mustang GT. One day it was running fine and I took it to the car wash where I sprayed under the hood momentarily. On the way back my house it ran rough. The next morning it would not start at all. New fuel pump and filter, still nothing. It’s getting about 4 volts on key turn. This is with a digital meter so I’m not sure if it spikes anywhere but that’s the only number I can make out. The float for the fuel amount is getting consistent 12V. Fuse is fine, not compromised in any way.
What I’m looking for is how the fuel pump should act on key turn. How many volts, for how long? Other things I should check that might be causing this. Thanks!

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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018
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The easiest way to trouble shoot a fuel pump issue is:
  • Confirm there is key on +12 volts at the trunk mounted IFS switch on both sides of the switch. Use a KNOWN good ground. Even better use a test light that "loads" the circuit.
  • Use an ODB2 scanner to "ask" the PCM what it "thinks" the fuel pressure is.

The fuel pump should "prime" for about 3-5 seconds at EACH key on. The PCM will then shut the fuel pump off until the PCM detects that the motor is running.

NOTE, the fuel pressure must be maintained between cranks. So if the fuel pressure drops between cranks this is a problem.

Regarding how many volts at the fuel pump. That depends upon the way its measured. The Fuel pump driver module (FPDM) supplies a pulsed DC voltage. An advanced VOM that can read duty cycle is needed to correctly measure this. However IMO if the fuel pump primes at key on I wouldn't be as concerned about voltage.

IF this were my car I would be concerned about the fuel rail pressure sensor (FRPS) is sending a good signal. First the FRPS is a no start sensor. Next that IF the PCM is not getting a valid FRPS, that can explain WHY there isn't any fuel pressure. Given that the engine bay was wet perhaps that makes more sense than some other theories.

Also check the spark plug wells for moisture.

Other think to consider. When the fuel pump was replaced did you have to splice in the wiring? Sometimes if wired backwards the fuel pump will make noise but not build pressure.

Also people will forget to check the flexible fuel line inside the gas tank for leaks.


2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.

Last edited by wmburns; 07-14-2018 at 10:59 AM.
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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmburns View Post
The easiest way to trouble shoot a fuel pump issue is:
  • Confirm there is key on +12 volts at the trunk mounted IFS switch on both sides of the switch. Use a KNOWN good ground. Even better use a test light that "loads" the circuit.
  • Use an ODB2 scanner to "ask" the PCM what it "thinks" the fuel pressure is.

The fuel pump should "prime" for about 3-5 seconds at EACH key on. The PCM will shut the fuel pump off until the PCM detects that the motor is running.

NOTE, the fuel pressure must be maintained between cranks. So if the fuel pressure drops between cranks this is a problem.

Regarding how many volts at the fuel pump. That depends upon the way its measured. The Fuel pump driver module (FPDM) supplies a pulsed DC voltage. An advanced VOM that can read duty cycle is needed to correctly measure this. However IMO if the fuel pump primes at key on I wouldn't be as concerned about voltage.

IF this were my car I would be concerned about the fuel rail pressure sensor (FRPS) is sending a good signal. First the FRPS is a no start sensor. Next that IF the PCM is not getting a valid FRPS, that can explain WHY there isn't any fuel pressure. Given that the engine bay was wet perhaps that makes more sense than some other theories.

Also check the spark plug wells for moisture.

Other think to consider. When the fuel pump was replaced did you have to splice in the wiring? Sometimes if wired backwards the fuel pump will make noise but not build pressure.

Also people will forget to check the flexible fuel line inside the gas tank for leaks.
Thanks for the timely response!
There was no splicing necessary, just plug and play. Why would the spark plugs being wet prevent the fuel from pumping? I will need to get a better obd2 tool to get the fuel pressure reading. At the inertia switch it is getting the correct voltage constantly with the key turned on. Is that normal? I have checked it at the schrader valve along with just disconnecting the fuel line and seeing if anything comes out of the tank, nada.

Does anyone have a location on where the fuel pressure switch is located?
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-08-2018
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Quote:
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Why would the spark plugs being wet prevent the fuel from pumping?
I'm thinking the FRPS got wet. But it's common for moisture to get into the spark plug wells and it will affect how the 4.6 runs. So it's good basic trouble shooting to check for it.
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At the inertia switch it is getting the correct voltage constantly with the key turned on. Is that normal?
Yes. That's why this is one of the "gold standard" tests for the fuel pump.
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I will need to get a better obd2 tool to get the fuel pressure reading.
Here's some information on an affordable Windows based ODB2 scanner.

ForScan ODB2 scanner w ELM327 USB
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-for...elm327-usb.57/
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Does anyone have a location on where the fuel pressure switch is located?
The fuel rail pressure sensor (FRPS) is located in the engine bay on the fuel rail. Look for the intake vacuum reference line and follow it to the FRPS.

But think about it for a moment. IF the fuel pump is running AND nothing comes out of the open line at the engine bay, THEN
  • The fuel pump is making noise but not moving fuel.
  • there's a block in the fuel line.
  • or you don't actually have the fuel line.

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018 Thread Starter
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But think about it for a moment. IF the fuel pump is running AND nothing comes out of the open line at the engine bay, THEN
  • The fuel pump is making noise but not moving fuel.
  • there's a block in the fuel line.
  • or you don't actually have the fuel line.
[/QUOTE]

The fuel pump is only kicking on for a split second. I’m thinking it is the pressure sensor also. That’s what would make the most sense to me.

Does anyone have a number on how much voltage the pump should be getting on key turn?
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-09-2018
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Quote:
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The fuel pump is only kicking on for a split second. Iím thinking it is the pressure sensor also. Thatís what would make the most sense to me.

Does anyone have a number on how much voltage the pump should be getting on key turn?
The fuel pump is only supposed to run for a few seconds at key on. But I can tell you from personal experience that "few seconds" is more than enough to make a mess under the hood if the fuel line is disconnected. I personally have stuck the fuel line into a plastic water bottle and after a key cycle have fuel in the bottle.

To correctly test the voltage from the FPDM to the fuel pump requires a volt-ohm meter that can process a duty cycle.

But myself personally I sometimes fall back to "old school" low tech methods. I would use an old fashion test light across the fuel pump and see if it lights the test light (even dimly). The test light will correctly approx a duty cycle supply. Don't get overly hung up on exactly what the number should be.

The other "low tech" test method is to supply a full 12 volts to the fuel pump and it should run a max speed. If it still only runs for a "split second" the diagnosis is confirmed.

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2018
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Had an OP do the same thing(high pressure clean the engine compartment/engine) on a Taurus and he had to take apart all of his weather packs apart and clean/regrease them. He actually shorted out his CCRM(full of soapy water).
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-12-2018 Thread Starter
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Had an OP do the same thing(high pressure clean the engine compartment/engine) on a Taurus and he had to take apart all of his weather packs apart and clean/regrease them. He actually shorted out his CCRM(full of soapy water).
Do you or anyone else know a location on this or how to test it?
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-13-2018
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Early SN95s had the CCRM between the radiator and engine, but later models (like yours, I believe) had them hidden behind the RF fender.

I don't know of a bench test procedure for CCRMs. Pretty sure you just gotta rule everything else out first.

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Quote:
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Do you or anyone else know a location on this or how to test it?
At the risk of beating a dead horse you were given the procedure HOW to test the fuel pump side of the CCRM. From the fuel pump point of view the main purpose of the CCRM is to supply key on power to the fuel pump. Sooooooooo if one performs a test for key on power at the trunk mounted IFS switch, THEN this confirms that the CCRM is working and doing the job for which it was intended.

You did confirm key on +12 volt power at the trunk mounted IFS switch right?

There was also a note stating best to use a test light to load the circuit. This would protect against a false positive test that can sometimes happen with a volt-Ohm meter.

It seems to me that additional tests of the CCRM would only be necessary IF it were not powering the fuel pump as expected.

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02GTSuperchrge View Post
Do you or anyone else know a location on this or how to test it?
Didn't mean to muddy up the waters I was trying to highlight the multiple problems he incurred not the CCRM individually. When you have OP knowledgeable enough to direct you into troubleshooting vs throwing parts at it can be a godsend and a good idea to follow their instructions.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018 Thread Starter
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Update. Got the codes from it: P1233, P1236, P1237.
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Update. Got the codes from it: P1233, P1236, P1237.
FWIIW, every one of the DTC codes above "could" be caused by testing with one or more connectors disconnected.

If for example the car is powered up with the FP disconnected I could easily see this all by itself generating a P1237.

Turning the car on with the IFS switch open could also cause a P1233.

IMO using the DTC codes for trouble shooting is not wise unless you know for certain that everything was connected and these new DTC codes returned after a DTC clear.

Tons of tests have been suggested. What are the results?

Here's some information on an alternate ODB2 testing device that should give better trouble shooting for "digital" wave forms. This should allow you to look at the duty cycle of the FPDM as well as the digital communication between the FDPM and the PCM.

Autel AL539 AutoLink OBD ll Professional Electrical Test Tool
https://www.amazon.com/Autel-AL539-A.../dp/B0091DJWKG

Fluke 88V 1000V Automotive Multimeter
https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-88V-100...ive+multimeter

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018 Thread Starter
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I have three codes: P1233 P1236 and P1237
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-14-2018 Thread Starter
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Sorry about that double post. I was reading through and didn’t see my first one so I thought it didn’t post. But it must have needed refreshed.

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