Ford Mustang Forum

Ford Mustang Forum (/forums/)
-   4.6L Tech (https://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/4-6l-tech/)
-   -   T-45 Tail Shaft Swap (https://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/4-6l-tech/140694-t-45-tail-shaft-swap.html)

Popeye54k 10-29-2008 03:09 AM

T-45 Tail Shaft Swap
 
15 Attachment(s)
Please feel free to hit me up with any corrections I have overlooked...

This write up is for the T-45 tail shaft swap. I had to change my tail shaft due to the magnetic speed sensor (found in the 99+ models) as appose to the gear driven sensor (96-98 models).

Car getting the tail shaft swap is a 2000 Mustang GT. I purchased a rebuild transmission and didn't realize that it had a gear driven sensor. So I had to swap the tail shaft in order to get the speedometer to work (and get rid of the "check engine" light).

Lets get started. First, we jack up the car (safety first).

Attachment 54451

Next, we drain the fluid, disconnect the oxygen sensor plugs, speed sensor, and drive shaft (I couldn't get the tail shaft out without disconnecting both oxygen sensors).

Attachment 54452

Now we need to remove the shifter, and accessories within the shifter assembly (sorry, don't know the name but it's in the pictures what needs to be removed) from the transmission. Make sure you remove the pin (shown in one of the pictures below) but make sure you don't lose it.

Attachment 54455 Attachment 54456 Attachment 54457 Attachment 54458 Attachment 54459 Attachment 54460
Attachment 54461

Now, remove the transmission crossmember (make sure you support the middle of the transmission in order to avoid stress on the engine mounts).

Attachment 54454

Once the cross member is removed, remove all the bolts holding tail shaft. Once removed, you should see a ring (plastic or metal depending on year of transmission. This one is a gear driven speed sensor transmission, so it's plastic with grooves). Removing the safety ring on the reluctor ring was the hardest thing to do for me because I didn't have the correct tool. I used a flat head screw driver and some needle nose pliers.

Attachment 54462 Attachment 54464

This is the reluctor ring (metal ring) I had to use for the required 2000 Mustang GT model. The way I removed the metal ring was by tapping it around it (not too hard and not too soft) until it finally came off. You can put it in the transmission the way it came out, with taps. A fellow AFM member helped me out on this one...thanks!

Attachment 54465

Now you can put everything back together. Make sure you put plenty of silicone on the tail shaft. Also, if you don't have a pump to pour oil into the transmission, you could always pour some in through the shifter like I did. I had to use Pennzoil oil because my local high performance shop was out of Royal Purple transmission oil.

Attachment 54466

Here we have the 2 tail shafts side by side with sensors.

Attachment 54467

So make sure you have transmission oil before you even start the job or you'll end up running around shop to shop looking for oil like I did. I wish I could upload more pictures here but it looks like I'm limited to 15 pictures. If there's anything I left out, again, don't hesitate to tell me.

*************************************
NOTE:
TO BE CONTINUED UNTIL I CAN FIGURE OUT TO UPLOAD MORE PICTURES. OR I MIGHT HAVE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PICTURES HERE.
*************************************

rj8806 10-29-2008 10:21 AM

Awesome write up and documentation. Pictures are worth a 1000 words. Hopefully the moderators can make this a sticky so it never goes away. :bigthumbsup



Richard
Tech Support
Tremec TKO, T45 & T56 Transmission Systems

04sonicbluegt 12-19-2008 04:36 PM

on my 97 i would like to get a new tranny. with doing so i would also like to swap my instrument cluster with one from a 99-04. is this possible without splicing any new connectors or anything like that??

Sxynerd 12-27-2008 05:39 PM

Very good write up.

RHaury 03-29-2009 11:24 PM

Awesome, very detailed lay-out on tail-shaft swap

RHaury 03-29-2009 11:31 PM

You look well informed
 
I pulled the old Borg-Warner T-45 and put in 2000? Model Tremec T-45 Trans.

What I was wondering is, am I going to have to do a tail shaft swap if the transmission I 'm putting in my 96 GT has a pulse admitting gear and a pulse sensor, and i want to change to the speedo gear back to a worm gear so I can use the old senor for my speeometer to work?

I noticed in the picture you have posted of the two tail shafts, that there a slight difference in the angle where the sensor is mounted in the housing. That's what has me wondering.

Let me know ASAP. Thanks a lot

Popeye54k 03-30-2009 11:29 AM

Well, I know for sure that the worm gear does not work for the 99-04 models. I could only assume that magnetic speed sensor/gear does not work for the 96-98 models. Besides, either sensors WILL NOT fit on the wrong tail shaft.

So, to answer your question, you would have to change your tail shaft and reluctor ring to get your speedometer to work. If you don't, you'll get a check engine light, and your car will turn off multiple times on idle (well, at least mine did until I changed the tail shaft).

rj8806 04-03-2009 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHaury (Post 1460916)
I pulled the old Borg-Warner T-45 and put in 2000? Model Tremec T-45 Trans.

What I was wondering is, am I going to have to do a tail shaft swap if the transmission I 'm putting in my 96 GT has a pulse admitting gear and a pulse sensor, and i want to change to the speedo gear back to a worm gear so I can use the old senor for my speeometer to work?

I noticed in the picture you have posted of the two tail shafts, that there a slight difference in the angle where the sensor is mounted in the housing. That's what has me wondering.

Let me know ASAP. Thanks a lot



The 2000 model T45 is an electronic speedometer, your '96 model is mechanical. The tail housings are different as well. You can do the swap but you will need to get a '96-98 GT (not Cobra) tail housing and then change the metal reluctor ring for the plastic gear.
On the '96-'98 models, the access port where the speedo cable goes, is at an angle. On the '99- and up models, the access port comes straight out. If you try and use the tail from the '00 on your '96 and just change the metal ring for the plastic gear, your speedo cable and drive gear will not mesh correctly with plastic gear on the output shaft and you won't have a speedo.
Also, the GT tail is different from the Cobra tail. The mounting pad for the transmission isolator is in a different location so they are not interchangeable either. :bigthumbsup





Richard
Tech Support
Tremec TKO, T45 & T56 Transmission Systems

RHaury 04-05-2009 10:52 AM

Thanx
 
I appreciate the input.

RHaury 04-05-2009 05:41 PM

How do I get that pin out of that shifter block on the shifter rail, located in the tail-shaft?

Popeye54k 04-06-2009 12:18 AM

The way it worked best for me was using an allen wrench (as pictured) and tap it with a hammer. Try using an allen wrench no bigger than the pin itself, just about the same size or so.

RHaury 04-07-2009 01:18 AM

Thanx. So you just tapped that pin all the way through the bottom of that shifter rail then?

Popeye54k 04-07-2009 05:50 AM

Yes, just be careful in not losing the pin though. If I remember correctly, you might need to engage the shifter block in 1st or 5th gear so the pin will face sideways. If you look closely in one of those shifter pictures, you'll see what I'm talking about.

RHaury 04-10-2009 02:29 AM

So I have the tail-shaft off now. I have encountered another obstacle, removing the speedo gear. Any crafty ways, going about removing the "c" clip above the gear?

RHaury 04-10-2009 03:02 AM

Nevermind, I worked hard at it. Go it off. Tail-shaft swap commences tomorrow.

Sxynerd 05-14-2009 11:44 AM

What's the update on on you Haury?

dr0pt0pGT 05-22-2009 03:49 PM

Excellent write up. im a little confused though. in your original post you say to swap the tailshaft. Are you refering to the actual tailshaft/output shaft or the tailshaft housing? So to recap... if Im putting a tremec t-45 (99-04) into a 97 GT then i would need to remove the tailshaft housings on both trans, swap the metal ring off the tremec for the plastic ring off the borg warner t-45 (96-98), and then put the borg warner (96-98 non-cobra) tailshaft housing on the tremec (99-04)? End result would be tremec trans with the plastic ring from borg warner and tailshaft housing from borg warner. Am I on the right path or am I way off?

Popeye54k 05-23-2009 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr0pt0pGT (Post 1549569)
Excellent write up. im a little confused though. in your original post you say to swap the tailshaft. Are you refering to the actual tailshaft/output shaft or the tailshaft housing? So to recap... if Im putting a tremec t-45 (99-04) into a 97 GT then i would need to remove the tailshaft housings on both trans, swap the metal ring off the tremec for the plastic ring off the borg warner t-45 (96-98), and then put the borg warner (96-98 non-cobra) tailshaft housing on the tremec (99-04)? End result would be tremec trans with the plastic ring from borg warner and tailshaft housing from borg warner. Am I on the right path or am I way off?

By tailshaft, I'm referring to the tailshaft housing. Other then that, seems like you're on the right path...

dr0pt0pGT 06-02-2009 07:28 PM

Ok so if I was to use a t-45 out of a 97 cobra, which has different crossmember mounting hole locations, I would put my tailshaft housing on it and that would fix both problems. Or do you know of other differences between the cobra and GT t-45s?

Popeye54k 06-03-2009 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr0pt0pGT (Post 1566562)
Ok so if I was to use a t-45 out of a 97 cobra, which has different crossmember mounting hole locations, I would put my tailshaft housing on it and that would fix both problems. Or do you know of other differences between the cobra and GT t-45s?

The only differences I know of the Cobra and GTs (96-98) are the tail shaft housing--due to different hole locations.

If you put on that 97 cobra tranny with your tail shaft housing, that will fix the issue of the hole locations (you'll not need that crossmember of the cobra).

I'm not 100% sure of the reluctor ring though. It may have the plastic ring. To find out, you could tell by the sensor it has on and by the way it is mounted. If its straight on the side, it has the metal reluctor ring. If its on the side slightly in a angle, then it has a plastic ring.

ocoinnigh 09-25-2009 05:17 PM

i have been getting conflicting fixes for my car. i have the exact opposite issue with my 98. i just got the car that was originally an automatic that was converted to 5-speed using a tranny out of an 03 gt.

cincy speed shop claims for $375 they can tune the car which has mass tranny codes with no working odometer or speedometer.

is there an easier fix other than swapping my tranny for to correct year and flashing the ecu? any thoughts?

poison96 06-15-2010 03:58 AM

I know this is a old post but found it and had a question if i can get a few answers.... thanks

Its a 96 Cobra....

I got my trans rebuilt at a shop and i guess they or where ever they got the trans from doesn't work with my speedo sensor/gear b/c it doesn't go in n if it does with ** force a bit ** ends up getting chewed up plus MPH doesn't work still n throws a code...

So the shop was thinking of ordering i guess the speed sensor with the magnetic at the end but is the connector the same as the one with the speedsensor with the gear at the end ?

or well i just have to have them change out the whole rear shaft back to the speedo gear type ?

sorry if i confused any of you..

Popeye54k 06-15-2010 05:10 AM

First of all, congrats on using the *search* button. You'd be surprise how many and I mean many people don't know how to use it.

There are two types of vehicle speed sensors:

1) a mechanical VSS for 96-98 and a
2) magnetic speed sensor for 99-04

The mechanic speed sensor (sort of looks like a long shaft with teeth on the end. Well, those teeth spin with the inner plastic that's in the tail shaft. The magnetic speed sensor picks up magnetic pulse from a metal reluctor ring in the tail shaft. IN NO WAY will those two sensor be interchangeable. Meaning, using the mechanic speed speed to the reluctor ring or visa versa.

Since your car falls in the category of a 96-98, you must use the mechanical speed sensor.

Now, from my understanding, the cobra and GT do not have the same tail shaft housing. I think it has something to do with the location of the cross member bolts--not sure.

Bottom line, stick to the mechanic speed sensor and you'll be fine. Oh yeah, to answer your question both type of sensors use the same plug. Good luck:bigthumbsup

hotshot 06-15-2010 04:17 PM

this thread looks like it deserves a sticky :bigthumbsup

poison96 06-16-2010 04:10 AM

Thanks helped out specially your pictures you had posted of full details..... so i ended up at the shop again they had a magnetic sensor which didn't even get close to fitting.... I tried looking through the speed sensor hole n didn't see the plastic gear on the shaft....... So tomorrow i'm just gonna leave it there n he said he is going to send it back out to have the guy put in the right shaft this time around...... also he is going to order a new speedo gear since it got chewed up from them forcing it in......
Quote:

Originally Posted by Popeye54k (Post 2107425)
First of all, congrats on using the *search* button. You'd be surprise how many and I mean many people don't know how to use it.

There are two types of vehicle speed sensors:

1) a mechanical VSS for 96-98 and a
2) magnetic speed sensor for 99-04

The mechanic speed sensor (sort of looks like a long shaft with teeth on the end. Well, those teeth spin with the inner plastic that's in the tail shaft. The magnetic speed sensor picks up magnetic pulse from a metal reluctor ring in the tail shaft. IN NO WAY will those two sensor be interchangeable. Meaning, using the mechanic speed speed to the reluctor ring or visa versa.

Since your car falls in the category of a 96-98, you must use the mechanical speed sensor.

Now, from my understanding, the cobra and GT do not have the same tail shaft housing. I think it has something to do with the location of the cross member bolts--not sure.

Bottom line, stick to the mechanic speed sensor and you'll be fine. Oh yeah, to answer your question both type of sensors use the same plug. Good luck:bigthumbsup


cobra_6725 03-17-2012 11:39 AM

So I can't remove the speedo gear. So I took it to a tranny shop and they said the plastic one will break trying to remove it. I got the clips out already. Any input on how you guys got the plastic one off?

cobra_6725 03-17-2012 12:51 PM

Okay guys so the tranny shop said if I keep the reluctor ring in and use the magnetic speed sensor then my speedometer will work. Basically just swap the tail housing, so that the new 2000gt tranny mounts into my 98 cobra. What do you guys think? It has the same plug, but he said it will be off by a couple of mph. I can fix that by just recalibrating the computer. Any thoughts? Will it work?

sillyrabbit0420 03-18-2012 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotshot (Post 2107889)
this thread looks like it deserves a sticky :bigthumbsup

Well good thing you never actually did it, clown!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra_6725 (Post 2968978)
Okay guys so the tranny shop said if I keep the reluctor ring in and use the magnetic speed sensor then my speedometer will work. Basically just swap the tail housing, so that the new 2000gt tranny mounts into my 98 cobra. What do you guys think? It has the same plug, but he said it will be off by a couple of mph. I can fix that by just recalibrating the computer. Any thoughts? Will it work?

The dudes who wrote this and posted here are long gone. As is much of the tech knowledge once available on AFM.
Having your speedo off by a little bit isn't that big of a deal.
I don't know what you mean by recalibrating your computer to fix the speedo. I know you can do that on the 99+ cars, but I thought the 98 and older needed a speedo gear.

Popeye54k 03-18-2012 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra_6725 (Post 2968891)
So I can't remove the speedo gear. So I took it to a tranny shop and they said the plastic one will break trying to remove it. I got the clips out already. Any input on how you guys got the plastic one off?

I don't remember using much pressure removing the plastic ring off. Every time I took one off (about 3 of them at least) I never broke one! If I remember correctly, once I got all c-clips out of the way, I removed the rings with just my hands with minimal force.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobra_6725 (Post 2968978)
Okay guys so the tranny shop said if I keep the reluctor ring in and use the magnetic speed sensor then my speedometer will work. Basically just swap the tail housing, so that the new 2000gt tranny mounts into my 98 cobra. What do you guys think? It has the same plug, but he said it will be off by a couple of mph. I can fix that by just recalibrating the computer. Any thoughts? Will it work?

NO! That will not work. Because of the magnetic pulse vs gear, the computer does not recognize the difference. I've heard (only heard but not sure) that you'll need a special device called something dallas (I don't remember the name). But if you have all the parts, just do it right from the start. Again, it might work, but it will NOT be plug-and-play if you decide to keep the metal reluctor ring.

Actually, now that I think about it...the metal reluctor ring will ONLY work with the 2000 tail shaft. And the Plastic gear will only work with your 1998 tail shalf. Both sensors have the same plug but are DIFFERENT SIZES! And If I remember correctly, the 98 and 00 are externally different also due to the cross member bolts location. Bottom line, you'd want to put the plastic gear, speed sensor, and tail shaft from your 98 to the 2000 so it can work for your 98. No other way around it! Don't mean to sound like a D**k, I'm just not feeding you BS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillyrabbit0420 (Post 2970339)
Well good thing you never actually did it, clown!



The dudes who wrote this and posted here are long gone. As is much of the tech knowledge once available on AFM.
Having your speedo off by a little bit isn't that big of a deal.
I don't know what you mean by recalibrating your computer to fix the speedo. I know you can do that on the 99+ cars, but I thought the 98 and older needed a speedo gear.

I might be gone, but check in once in a while. I still have love for Mustangs, although, I'm going the ricer path with my new Nissan 240sx...lol.

cobra_6725 was able to get a hold of me via PM which is linked to my email. I have no problems helping others If I have the knowledge for that specific topic.

nyuk98gt 03-18-2012 10:11 PM

cobra_6725:

Dallas Mustang offers an extended range SpeedCal that should allow you to run a mag pick-up sensor to power your 'electro-mechanical' speedo/odo. The VSS generates an alternating current signal that is different in frequency to the mag sensor. (I am no electrical whiz as you can tell but I'm "generally correct" about the signals, lol). I enjoyed your VB codes, too!!

Popeye54k: Thank you for posting the how-to and for the follow-up posts. You've helped out a lot of Mustangers! (And I'm OK with your driving a Civic as a DD :D :D but you've gotta get another 'Stang!).

cobra_6725 03-19-2012 02:07 AM

Thank you guys for all of your help. I actually ended up removing the plastic gear off by myself. It came off with ease, but the tail shaft in the 98 cobra is different size for the magnet speedo gear as well as the mounting for the crossmember. So pepeye54 you were right lol. I finally got it all put back together with the correct rings. Man are long tube headers a PITA!

QuiQuepr69 09-14-2013 12:35 AM

I got a question! to popeye54K, and I did use the search button !! yayyy. dahh! now for the question ! I have a 97 gt with a T45 and just rebuild it ! well the rear gears were 3.90 and I change them for 3.73 and still my speedometer is out of wack ! I notice that the factory drive gear is green so it mines, but I forgot to count the tooth in that drive, and when I look at LMR or AM, the don't have a green gear, they only have black and yellow gears!! I have a new sensor gear that is 18 tooth but without the correct number of teeth in the drive gear I fill lost, so the bottom question is did you remember how many tooth it was you green drive gear? that way I can be more "for sure" that just change it then fill like junk because it did not work !! Thanks ! crazy2.gif


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1
vB.Sponsors
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2002-2015 All Ford Enthusiasts Network ™.

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome