2003 GT Crank No Start Condition - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014 Thread Starter
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2003 GT Crank No Start Condition

So the other day (really cold out) the car cranks but no start. Cycle the key again and it starts. Very weird as this car is extremely well maintained at about 115k miles. So A couple of days later, it does the same thing. Only this time I can't make it start at all.

No codes.
PATS working normally. No fast blink. Goes out with key on.
Cranking at full speed. No slow crank.
Battery voltage is fine at 12.7
Sprayed "engine start" fluid into intake and nothing. Doesn't even try.

So I figure I'm looking at a crankshaft position sensor.
Since it's like 8 degrees out here in NY I let the car sit.

Today it's 38 degrees out so I go to start the car and it starts right up.
I let it idle for about 20 minutes. And it's fine.
I hook up my Garmin GPS which has a Bluetooth connecton to the OBD port and everything looks normal.
Fuel Pressure at 51PSi
Voltage at 13.8 idling.
Etc....

So I turn off the car and then turn it back on.
NOW it's running like crap.

So I take a look at the Garmin Guages and Fuel Pressure is about 13 PSI which is not good.
Stepping on the gas causes the car to stall.
Re-start the car and fuel pressure is still 13-16 PSI stepping on the gas causes it to decrease and the car stalls.

Again, no codes thrown.

Soooooooooo.......

Any ideas?

Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor?
Fuel Pump?

Filter was changed about 6 months ago.

Any suggestions would be appreciated !

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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014
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The fuel rail sensor will throw a code.Sounds like maybe the pump is going out.



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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014 Thread Starter
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Thank you Heavy Metal !
I'm leaning toward the fuel pump.

It's kind of weird that the car literally running so badly, very, very rough idle didn't toss a code.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014 Thread Starter
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Well it's 16 degrees here and the car won't start again... For some reason the really cold temps aggravate this problem. It's supposed to be 40 tomorrow so just for kicks I'm going to give it a try. I'm also going to scope out the power to the connector and see if it's getting voltage.

At this point I'm pretty confident it's the fuel pump.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014 Thread Starter
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Question

Update New Information:: So today it's 40 degrees out and the car started right up. I let it idle for a few minutes and the fuel pressure was around 40-41 PSI but low and behold it FINALLY tossed a code.

P0190 Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit Malfunction.

I re-seated the connector and vacuum hose. Didn't see anything obvious.

I cleared the code and it has not come back. This is the only time I have seen this code through out the ordeal.

Soooooooo the 6 million dollar question is:

Go for the FRP sensor

or

The fuel pump...

Any ideas?
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014
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Since you got a code,i would replace the sensor first.


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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heavy metal View Post
Since you got a code,i would replace the sensor first.
That's my thoughts as well.
It's supposed to be really cold here tomorrow so I expect the car to be in the failing condition again unless I fixed it by re-seating the electrical connector. I'm all set up with my meter to take some measurements just to confirm.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014 Thread Starter
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I changed the sensor last night and the car fired right up. Ran it for a while and all fine. But that's kind of normal as it seems to fail when it's really cold and the car has been sitting.

So this morning it's 15 degrees out and the car started right up.
I'm not convinced yet, but it's a very good sign.

One thing I remembered is that with the old sensor when I was monitoring fuel pressure at one point it was sitting at a solid 51 PSI at idle which is way up there.
The pump only does what it's told by the PCM and the PCM gets it's data from the FRPS so, it seems logical that the sensor might be the cause. Or the PCM or wiring (God help me) of course. Couple it with the one time it did through a P0190 code and the sensor looks even more suspect.

I'm staying close to home until I'm convinced it's fixed.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014
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Hopefully that done the trick and you have no more problems.


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If it happens again I would suspect its the pump.

Rick
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-30-2014 Thread Starter
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Alright so it was 8 degrees here this morning and when I looked at the dash, without even putting the key in, the Theft light was flashing real fast...

This is a new symptom and never happened before.

Put the key in and light still flashing like crazy and I get crank--no start.

Perform the PATS reset (key in, turn to on for a minute etc) and now it starts fine.

No codes stored in ECM. Also tried Cluster Diags and no dtc stored there either.

Starts up every time now.
Coincidence?

I'm wondering if I have a +5vref problem?
It only happens when ice cold out, like 20 degrees and below.

Maybe the PCM relay has moisture in it and it doesn't allow the contacts to close because it's frozen?

I've seen posts from people who had the RFID antenna for PATS causing problems in extreme cold and the solution was to use a hairdryer on it for a little bit to warm it up. That's crazy!

So, any ideas?

P.S. I never get the easy ones like blown fuses

Like I said, this is a brand new symptom here. Previously, prior to installing the new FRPS, the theft light was behaving normally.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014 Thread Starter
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Alright it's fixed ! FRPS was the fix for an intermittent crank but no start condition. I notice that the car seems to have a lot more pep to it and idles better as well. It's noticeable.

One item: I tracked down the PATS theft light flashing problem which surfaced after I replaced the sensor.

Seems I forgot to remove the Garmin EcoTrip bluetooth module from the OBD port and it interfered. Probably because it's been flaky ever since I got it. Real piece of crap that loses communication with the Garmin GPS all the time and for no reason.
I suspect it's defective.

Anyway, I removed it and have not seen a PATS fast flash theft light since.

My bad....

So I've started the car like 100 times, drove all over town and it seems better than ever.
With my mileage, I am going to change the fuel pump when the weather warms up just as a preventative measure.

Thanks to everyone!
Hope this helps another Mustang owner with the same/similar problem.
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