New stroker build!!! - Ford Mustang Forum
Like Tree8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-29-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
New stroker build!!!

I have been reading all of the 331 vs 347 debates and I am still having a hard time deciding. It looks like 347 has a little side load and it might need notching at the bottom of the cylinder, but I also hear plenty of 347 owners say that there is nothing wrong and that they have driven their car for thousands of miles. I have my engine pulled apart and I have the money, I just got cold feet when it came time to bring the engine to the shop today. I am still not sure what to ask for. I dont plan on forced induction or nitro, so I am looking at higher compression.

I currently have the TFS top-end kit with 170cc heads. The previous owner ran octane booster and I had bad compression, so I have to address the heads. I was thinking about getting some port work done since they are going to have to pull the valves ect. My question is if I would be better off trying to save a little money and let the machine shop do it or send them to Total Engine Airflow and get them ported to 205cc for $1k?

Trick Flow 205cc TW Cylinder Head | :: Total Engine Airflow ::

dustin2100 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
11R205 heads came down in price since the last time that I looked. I am just going to sell my 170's and get the bigger set.

dustin2100 is offline  
post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017
BOSS Member
 
JD08's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: WPB
Posts: 3,982
 
Glad we could help.
JD08 is offline  
 
post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD08 View Post
Glad we could help.
Yeah, these forums have been quiet since I came back from the army 2002-2009.
dustin2100 is offline  
post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017
BOSS Member
 
JD08's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: WPB
Posts: 3,982
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin2100 View Post
Yeah, these forums have been quiet since I came back from the army 2002-2009.
Thank you for your service.

I've noticed a lot less traffic on forums for the S550 compared to the S197. I figure it's the Facebook factor.
dustin2100 likes this.
JD08 is offline  
post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017
GT Member
 
squekster's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2014
Location: shirley
Posts: 2,057
   
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin2100 View Post
I have been reading all of the 331 vs 347 debates and I am still having a hard time deciding. It looks like 347 has a little side load and it might need notching at the bottom of the cylinder, but I also hear plenty of 347 owners say that there is nothing wrong and that they have driven their car for thousands of miles. I have my engine pulled apart and I have the money, I just got cold feet when it came time to bring the engine to the shop today. I am still not sure what to ask for. I dont plan on forced induction or nitro, so I am looking at higher compression.

I currently have the TFS top-end kit with 170cc heads. The previous owner ran octane booster and I had bad compression, so I have to address the heads. I was thinking about getting some port work done since they are going to have to pull the valves ect. My question is if I would be better off trying to save a little money and let the machine shop do it or send them to Total Engine Airflow and get them ported to 205cc for $1k?

Trick Flow 205cc TW Cylinder Head | :: Total Engine Airflow ::

You know that old saying," there is no replacement for displacement'. The larger displacement engine will of course
produce more power but you have to weigh that against longevity.In order to increase the stroke to achieve 347 cubes
the rods do need to be clearanced but you can do that yourself if needed. Personally I would opt for the 347 over the 331.
dustin2100 likes this.
squekster is offline  
post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-30-2017
Apprentice
 
Shanvhere's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Houston
Posts: 59
 
meow
Shanvhere is offline  
post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,890
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin2100 View Post
11R205 heads came down in price since the last time that I looked. I am just going to sell my 170's and get the bigger set.
If you want to use the 205cc heads I believe you really want "more cam" than you currently have, and possibly an intake that makes more power in the higher rpm range. Even though you'll be getting more cubes, I think you'll need more rpm than the tfs1 cam and street heat/burner intake can produce to make the 205's worth while. In short I believe the tfs 1 cam, street intake, and 205cc heads would be a mismatched combo. You might opt for the 190cc if you're going to use your old cam and intake.
I think I would probably opt for the 347. I think it would produce more power at a "steeetable" rpm vs the 331. I think you'll have to rev the 331 higher to make the same power as the 347 would at a little lower rpm.
Don't forget to get with whoever is going to tune the car about fuel requirements. Ask them what size injectors and pump they are comfortable with at your power level and what MAF they prefer. This is definitely a build that will warrant a dyno tune or possibly a "remote" tune. Some may argue that it will run with the stock tune (it might not). But to that I say, you can drive with your feet if you want to, but that doesn't make it a good idea. You know, the PO and his octane booster..
Good luck and keep us posted.
dustin2100 likes this.
90lxwhite is offline  
post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
Thanks for the replies everyone! I actually brought my engine in to the shop yesterday morning and I didnt know that they were so busy up there. In OKC this is supposed to be "The" guy to go to. I was offended when they didnt answer their phone, but once I made it up there I saw why. I guess that it is a good thing that they are so busy. I just didnt feel like he asked me enough questions. He did talk me into a 331 based on it being a street car and I am probably never going to race anyone. He brought up the whole rod ratio and that this 331 should last as long as a stock 302.

I brought my 170cc heads in at the same time. I am not getting the full race port and polish but he did say that he will do a little work to them. I was really just trying to address the low compression that I was having before. I can always trade out heads later. I am getting the engine balanced and high compression. He told me that 10.5:1 is about as high as I want to go on compression. Anyways, I am going to include a link to Wiki about the shop owners. I think that it is on the 3rd generation now. The grandfather is the one that started the shop and now the grandson is the only one left and he is in the office now instead of the shop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Rice
dustin2100 is offline  
post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
Next, it is time to tear into my AOD... I feel a little more comfortable with automatic transmissions because that is about the only thing that my dad taught me. He lives around the corner from me and he knows all of the little tricks and has all of the special tools. I dont think that I am going to get too crazy with mods, just address the overdrive problem that these have, the reverse clutch drum with a mechanical diode that will give me the 2'' OD band and I will use the bigger A+ servo. While tearing the engine down, I found a $679 FTI torque converter 9.5'' with a 2800 stall!

I am a little stumped on what to do. I know that my heads are going to limit my top end hp, so a big camshaft probably will not help much until I get bigger heads but I really do think that I will get bigger heads later on. I am going to get a SilverFox valve body and it will let me shift at 5,800RPM and I can change it in 800RPM increments and I think that I would be able to manually shift also, not sure about it yet. I had fun driving my last car, '95GT 306 and TFS#2, but I didnt like stopping at stop signs because I had the 2:73 gears and it would fall on it's face when I let the clutch out and I would have to ride the clutch hard on a up hill stop sign. This time, I already have a 2800 stall converter...
dustin2100 is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,890
           
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustin2100 View Post
Next, it is time to tear into my AOD... I feel a little more comfortable with automatic transmissions because that is about the only thing that my dad taught me. He lives around the corner from me and he knows all of the little tricks and has all of the special tools. I dont think that I am going to get too crazy with mods, just address the overdrive problem that these have, the reverse clutch drum with a mechanical diode that will give me the 2'' OD band and I will use the bigger A+ servo. While tearing the engine down, I found a $679 FTI torque converter 9.5'' with a 2800 stall!

I am a little stumped on what to do. I know that my heads are going to limit my top end hp, so a big camshaft probably will not help much until I get bigger heads but I really do think that I will get bigger heads later on. I am going to get a SilverFox valve body and it will let me shift at 5,800RPM and I can change it in 800RPM increments and I think that I would be able to manually shift also, not sure about it yet. I had fun driving my last car, '95GT 306 and TFS#2, but I didnt like stopping at stop signs because I had the 2:73 gears and it would fall on it's face when I let the clutch out and I would have to ride the clutch hard on a up hill stop sign. This time, I already have a 2800 stall converter...
I'd keep the cam that you have. You'll probably make over 300 hp at the wheels and maybe as much as 350 + or -. 300 and some odd rear hp in a fox is a pretty quick street car. If you go with a different cam that "operates" at a higher rpm you'll need to get an intake manifold that will also "operate" higher in the rpm range.
What rear gear do you have now? My '95 w a t5 did the same as yours w my cam when I had 2.73 gears, but all is well after switching to a 3.73 gear.
dustin2100 likes this.
90lxwhite is offline  
post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 08-31-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
I'd keep the cam that you have. You'll probably make over 300 hp at the wheels and maybe as much as 350 + or -. 300 and some odd rear hp in a fox is a pretty quick street car. If you go with a different cam that "operates" at a higher rpm you'll need to get an intake manifold that will also "operate" higher in the rpm range.
What rear gear do you have now? My '95 w a t5 did the same as yours w my cam when I had 2.73 gears, but all is well after switching to a 3.73 gear.
Alright, I just got back from picking my heads up from the engine shop that didnt do port work and he refereed me to someone that did. I am really glad that did because the other guy said that he could port my intake also. I really wish that I would have brought my whole engine into the 2nd guy! He was showing me work that he did for some of the "Street Outlaws" guys here in OKC. I was having trouble talking to Buddy Rice(1st engine shop) and Henson Racing(2nd shop) said that they know each other and that they will coordinate the engine build together. It was really a relief for me and I feel more confident in the whole matter now. Henson Racing is going to do a full port and polish on my 170's heads, port my TFS intake, and gasket match all of it together. He told me that I should be getting close to 500hp when we are done and I got the idea that he was talking about crank hp and not RWHP. Henson is going to upgrade the valve springs and help me pick a camshaft as well. Big relief! He suggested that I get 30# injectors and get a dyno tune. He said that I will probably be maxing out the 30#'s but it is easier to tune at idle.

Here is a cool article that I found that shows some of his customers from "Street Outlaws" and way down at the bottom he has his own section...
Behind the Scenes with Discovery Channel's Street Outlaws - Hot Rod Network

Plan B is Mike Henson
dustin2100 is offline  
SHELBY GT 350 Member
 
90lxwhite's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,890
           
Sounds good. Yeah I imagine he was talking 500 crank horse, but that's still a lot.
How are you set up in the suspension department? If it's not already "beefed up" you might want to start shopping for parts. You're throwing a lot more power at it than the stock stuff will be able to "put down." If it's the 20+ year old original that's even worse. If you don't have them I would do subframe connectors and an aftermarket set of rear control arms. I would do that first even before springs, shocks, and struts if yours are stock. Old shocks/struts aren't ideal, but with 500 hp you'd benefit more by reducing flex and by being able to keep the rear tires straight off of the line and in corners.
With the sfc's there's no need to spend crazy money on them. Just make sure they are the weld-in kind and they have seat bracket/braces. After all, all they are are boxed steel.
When it comes to the rear control arms don't skimp out there. The inexpensive ones are crap and the expansive ones aren't. Get the best ones that you can afford.
You might also want to think about freshening up the front end if it's original. Bj's, inner/outer tie rods etc.
Good luck
dustin2100 likes this.
90lxwhite is offline  
BOSS Member
 
JD08's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2010
Location: WPB
Posts: 3,982
 
Sounds like you'll be near the limits of a stock block.
dustin2100 likes this.
JD08 is offline  
post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 09-01-2017 Thread Starter
PONY Member
 
dustin2100's Avatar
 
Joined: May 2009
Location: Oklahoma city
Posts: 357
 
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
Sounds good. Yeah I imagine he was talking 500 crank horse, but that's still a lot.
How are you set up in the suspension department? If it's not already "beefed up" you might want to start shopping for parts. You're throwing a lot more power at it than the stock stuff will be able to "put down." If it's the 20+ year old original that's even worse. If you don't have them I would do subframe connectors and an aftermarket set of rear control arms. I would do that first even before springs, shocks, and struts if yours are stock. Old shocks/struts aren't ideal, but with 500 hp you'd benefit more by reducing flex and by being able to keep the rear tires straight off of the line and in corners.
With the sfc's there's no need to spend crazy money on them. Just make sure they are the weld-in kind and they have seat bracket/braces. After all, all they are are boxed steel.
When it comes to the rear control arms don't skimp out there. The inexpensive ones are crap and the expansive ones aren't. Get the best ones that you can afford.
You might also want to think about freshening up the front end if it's original. Bj's, inner/outer tie rods etc.
Good luck
I was starting to think the same thing! How is the rest of the car going to hold up... It looks like there is a Eibach supsension kit with shocks, springs, and sway bars. It has 4 lug wheels with a rear disc conversion but it appears to be the OEM brake booster. The car rode smooth on the highway and it looks like the OEM front steering components have been replaced with OEM and it looks like a new rack and pinion with an old ass power steering pump blowing fluid everywhere. No signs of reinforcements such as sub frame or torque box. Rear control arms look OEM.

dustin2100 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Ford Mustang Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a VALID email address for yourself, otherwise you will not receive the necessary confirmation email needed to confirm, validate and activate your new AFM member account.

Failure to provide a VALID email address, will result in the cancellation of your new AFM member account registration.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome
 


Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1