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Overheating

Hey guys, I've been fighting this issue quite some time now. The car has always acted like it doesnt have a t-stat. I've tried both stock and aftermarket 160/180 t-stats with no luck. It wasnt much of any issue because i would only drive the car every so often on the weekends normally at night time when its cooler.



Recently i did an aod swap and with the extra heat the automatic creates compared to the t-5 i had i'm now having an even bigger issue. Tonight at 75 outside my engine temp was getting up to 220 degrees and the trans temp was at 180ish (not too bad) earlier in the day it was getting up to 210. The exhaust near my transmission lines are also header wrapped.



Engine: 302

Cam: F303
Heads: GT40X Aluminum Heads



The cooling parts i have are as listed


x2 Cooling Fans: Mishimoto MMFAN-12 Slim Electric Fan = 2300 CFM


Radiator: 3 Core Aluminum Champion Radiator


Transmission Cooler: B&M SuperCooler Oil Coolers 70264


Water pump: Stock style 302 GMB Water pump

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 2 Days Ago
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Air in the system. Maybe.

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Ive read reviews on those fans and they supposedly dont cool very well at all.This was reviews on 86-93 Mustang setups too.They claimed the oem clutch fan cooled better.Another issue I was curious about is your mounting location.Arent these fans puller fans & not pusher?? If yes,I dont see how they could work very well at all,if them being mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang doesnt cool worth a damn & yours are mounted on the front side of the radiator.If theyre puller fans,when theyre mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang, theyre drawing cool air through the radiator thats flowing towards the front of the car as youre cruising along.So If theyre mounted on the front of your radiator,arent they pulling hot air through the radiator from the hot engine bay towards the front of the car?? If yes,I would see that as a problem.Or maybe these are pusher fans instead and Im looking at the wrong fans?? The MM Ford 2300cfm fans I viewed were on summit.I believe 2300 is the total for both fans too,not 2300 each.Did you try running the stock clutch fan setup before these,to see how it cooled?? Also,are you running a correct reverse rotation water pump or a standard rotation?? Are you running a 130amp alternator or just oem amperage??

91 LX 342ci (10.5:1)
TFS 190cc (stage ll)
GT40 (tubular) intake
Lunati 61011(.549"/.565")
QA1 Coilovers
Weld ProStar XP's

Last edited by wbrockstar; 1 Day Ago at 07:45 PM.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 1 Day Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrockstar View Post
Ive read reviews on those fans and they supposedly dont cool very well at all.This was reviews on 86-93 Mustang setups too.They claimed the oem clutch fan cooled better.Another issue I was curious about is your mounting location.Arent these fans puller fans & not pusher?? If yes,I dont see how they could work very well at all,if them being mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang doesnt cool worth a damn & yours are mounted on the front side of the radiator.If theyre puller fans,when theyre mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang, theyre drawing cool air through the radiator thats flowing towards the front of the car as youre cruising along.So If theyre mounted on the front of your radiator,arent they pulling hot air through the radiator from the hot engine bay towards the front of the car?? If yes,I would see that as a problem.Or maybe these are pusher fans instead and Im looking at the wrong fans?? The MM Ford 2300cfm fans I viewed were on summit.I believe 2300 is the total for both fans too,not 2300 each.Did you try running the stock clutch fan setup before these,to see how it cooled?? Also,are you running a correct reverse rotation water pump or a standard rotation?? Are you running a 130amp alternator or just oem amperage??
I just looked at the pic he posted. It’s a ‘60 some odd and the fans are mounted towards the grill.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrockstar View Post
Ive read reviews on those fans and they supposedly dont cool very well at all.This was reviews on 86-93 Mustang setups too.They claimed the oem clutch fan cooled better.Another issue I was curious about is your mounting location.Arent these fans puller fans & not pusher?? If yes,I dont see how they could work very well at all,if them being mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang doesnt cool worth a damn & yours are mounted on the front side of the radiator.If theyre puller fans,when theyre mounted on the engine side of the radiator in a 86-93 Mustang, theyre drawing cool air through the radiator thats flowing towards the front of the car as youre cruising along.So If theyre mounted on the front of your radiator,arent they pulling hot air through the radiator from the hot engine bay towards the front of the car?? If yes,I would see that as a problem.Or maybe these are pusher fans instead and Im looking at the wrong fans?? The MM Ford 2300cfm fans I viewed were on summit.I believe 2300 is the total for both fans too,not 2300 each.Did you try running the stock clutch fan setup before these,to see how it cooled?? Also,are you running a correct reverse rotation water pump or a standard rotation?? Are you running a 130amp alternator or just oem amperage??

The fans are universal, the blades can be flipped around to make it a pusher or a puller. Right now they're set up as pushers going through the radiator. yes 2300 is total not just one fan. The pump i have is a ccw rotation and i have a 130amp alternator. I've never had a stock clutch fan, not really a fan of them either haha.
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Maybe they work better as a puller vs pusher,Im unsure.The following is a review for these fans at the link you posted and eventhough its just one negative review vs others that were positive,the poster made some valid points that seem to parallel your setup.Theyre shown in bold text.A review is also gonna be written using the experience that one person had with his particular year,make,model,engine & modifications.So his experience is gonna be quite different from others who have a totally different setup.

(REVIEW)
*** While these fans are quite slim, they do not move very much air at all,especially in "pusher" mode they come with NO instructions at all so you're just supposed to know that for them to have any hope of working as a pusher you need to remove the bolt in the fan and flip the blades over that makes them work just a hair better but they still suck horribly. on a 74 degree day just idling in my driveway, AC off, with 2 of these going almost non stop my car was barely keeping cool. the fans were touching the radiator with NO gap and the radiator was clean inside an out with fresh coolant and no air in the system. These fans were literally on more than they were off to keep the car between 185 and 191 (I have a data logger ECU). the stock fans were much much better but they were big and in the way so I was trying these instead. The important info that's left out is that the CFM is with ZERO blockage.As soon as you put a fan in front of a radiator the CFM drops due to having to push the air through an obstruction. the slimmer the fan, the less pressure it can make to keep the CFM up
With these little slim fans's, CFM drops like a rock as soon as they have to do any work. The design is fairly poor as well. The blades could have been wider and slightly longer making them much more efficient without changing the overall dimensions of the fan at all.The motors only drew about 6 amps as well so beefier motors would've helped alot. If you only have 2.5" of room I guess try them out but keep an eye on your temp gauge***


I wonder if temps would go down if you temporarily removed one of the fans (as a test) & got the car on a highway or road very close to your house that will allow you to travel at a great enough speed to allow plenty of airflow to the radiator?? You wouldn't want to do it if theres alot of stop & go traffic between you & the highway.This might help determine if the fans,being mounted in front of the radiator,are being more of an obstruction to airflow through the radiator than the engine can handle.The review posters point about the fans slim dimension having a negative affect on just how much air the fans can even push,is indeed a valid concern,especially considering your radiator is a thicker 3 row unit.Is lack of space between the engine and radiator the reason why you mounted them in front or was there some other reason?? Just curious if they could be mounted on the engine side of the radiator?? I dont see any mods on your engine that would create higher coolant temps than what a 86-95 Mustang normally sees.Proper shrouding is very important to cooling in the 5.0 in these models,so is it as important in a classic model with a 5.0 too?? My 91 & 90 (sold) models have always run below 200,in stock and modified condition & I my cooling system isnt as nice as yours.Is your base timing (spout plug removed) set between 10-14?? Is a squared off corner of head gasket showing on both of your heads,where the head meets the block?? Ive seen one gasket orientated incorrectly on quite a few builds.

91 LX 342ci (10.5:1)
TFS 190cc (stage ll)
GT40 (tubular) intake
Lunati 61011(.549"/.565")
QA1 Coilovers
Weld ProStar XP's
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 1 Hour Ago Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbrockstar View Post
Maybe they work better as a puller vs pusher,Im unsure.The following is a review for these fans at the link you posted and eventhough its just one negative review vs others that were positive,the poster made some valid points that seem to parallel your setup.Theyre shown in bold text.A review is also gonna be written using the experience that one person had with his particular year,make,model,engine & modifications.So his experience is gonna be quite different from others who have a totally different setup.

(REVIEW)
*** While these fans are quite slim, they do not move very much air at all,especially in "pusher" mode they come with NO instructions at all so you're just supposed to know that for them to have any hope of working as a pusher you need to remove the bolt in the fan and flip the blades over that makes them work just a hair better but they still suck horribly. on a 74 degree day just idling in my driveway, AC off, with 2 of these going almost non stop my car was barely keeping cool. the fans were touching the radiator with NO gap and the radiator was clean inside an out with fresh coolant and no air in the system. These fans were literally on more than they were off to keep the car between 185 and 191 (I have a data logger ECU). the stock fans were much much better but they were big and in the way so I was trying these instead. The important info that's left out is that the CFM is with ZERO blockage.As soon as you put a fan in front of a radiator the CFM drops due to having to push the air through an obstruction. the slimmer the fan, the less pressure it can make to keep the CFM up
With these little slim fans's, CFM drops like a rock as soon as they have to do any work. The design is fairly poor as well. The blades could have been wider and slightly longer making them much more efficient without changing the overall dimensions of the fan at all.The motors only drew about 6 amps as well so beefier motors would've helped alot. If you only have 2.5" of room I guess try them out but keep an eye on your temp gauge***


I wonder if temps would go down if you temporarily removed one of the fans (as a test) & got the car on a highway or road very close to your house that will allow you to travel at a great enough speed to allow plenty of airflow to the radiator?? You wouldn't want to do it if theres alot of stop & go traffic between you & the highway.This might help determine if the fans,being mounted in front of the radiator,are being more of an obstruction to airflow through the radiator than the engine can handle.The review posters point about the fans slim dimension having a negative affect on just how much air the fans can even push,is indeed a valid concern,especially considering your radiator is a thicker 3 row unit.Is lack of space between the engine and radiator the reason why you mounted them in front or was there some other reason?? Just curious if they could be mounted on the engine side of the radiator?? I dont see any mods on your engine that would create higher coolant temps than what a 86-95 Mustang normally sees.Proper shrouding is very important to cooling in the 5.0 in these models,so is it as important in a classic model with a 5.0 too?? My 91 & 90 (sold) models have always run below 200,in stock and modified condition & I my cooling system isnt as nice as yours.Is your base timing (spout plug removed) set between 10-14?? Is a squared off corner of head gasket showing on both of your heads,where the head meets the block?? Ive seen one gasket orientated incorrectly on quite a few builds.

I had issues before trying to fit them between the engine and radiator. The engine compartment is different than a foxbody and most foxbody radiators have more of a slim design and with an electric fan they are pretty tight to begin with. With my thicker radiator and different engine compartment i have about 3.5-4 inches of room between the radiator and water pump pulley. I ordered a Flex-A-Lite Black Magic Xtreme Series Electric Fans 180 from summit that will be here tomorrow. I'm gonna take a stab at this and probably end up having to modify my radiator support to get this fan to work but from what i've read about this fan, it seems to be the ****. Timing is set to 10 degrees with a tune. I've ran both on stock and performance tunes and it doesnt seem to make a difference. Both head gaskets were installed properly. With the stock heads i had the same issues and figured maybe someone changed a head gasket down the road on the engine and made the mistake you're referring to. When i changed to a set of aluminum heads i remember having to flip one of the head gaskets upside down. If i remember correctly the water ports are blocked in the front and are open in the back right?
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 10 Minutes Ago
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthewap44 View Post
I had issues before trying to fit them between the engine and radiator. The engine compartment is different than a foxbody and most foxbody radiators have more of a slim design and with an electric fan they are pretty tight to begin with. With my thicker radiator and different engine compartment i have about 3.5-4 inches of room between the radiator and water pump pulley. I ordered a Flex-A-Lite Black Magic Xtreme Series Electric Fans 180 from summit that will be here tomorrow. I'm gonna take a stab at this and probably end up having to modify my radiator support to get this fan to work but from what i've read about this fan, it seems to be the ****. Timing is set to 10 degrees with a tune. I've ran both on stock and performance tunes and it doesnt seem to make a difference. Both head gaskets were installed properly. With the stock heads i had the same issues and figured maybe someone changed a head gasket down the road on the engine and made the mistake you're referring to. When i changed to a set of aluminum heads i remember having to flip one of the head gaskets upside down. If i remember correctly the water ports are blocked in the front and are open in the back right?
Yes thats absolutely correct & if you clearly remember doing that to one of the gaskets,thats likely a verification youve got them installed properly.The protruding gasket at the lower front corner of each head truly verifies their correct orientation.

91 LX 342ci (10.5:1)
TFS 190cc (stage ll)
GT40 (tubular) intake
Lunati 61011(.549"/.565")
QA1 Coilovers
Weld ProStar XP's
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