Twisted Wedge 170's and Stock cam? - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Twisted Wedge 170's and Stock cam?

Hello all so I'm about to get a set of twisted wedge 170s. Not trying to beat a dead horse on this subject but, I'm on a very tight budget currently and have Got basic bolt ons done like exhaust intake and 65mm tb on 93 cobra upper and lower. Using a stock cam with twisted wedge 170s will i really be losing out on that much performance? Or should I just save bit more get a tfs cam? I know with a stock cobra intake I wont be seeing anywhere near 300whp without a aggressive cam still maybe hard without porting. But I had some people say don’t be surprised if you barely see over 240whp? Seems low even for stock HO cam. Was Just an idea thinking while i save up to rebuild my other engine for boost I can slap my aluminums on the stock 86. being twisted wedges clear flat top pistons I thought could get some decent performance even with stock cam I mean coming from e6 heads got to be a big difference lmao.


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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 1 Week Ago
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This guy made 270.
https://www.corral.net/threads/how-m...1433164/page-3
Right now you’re probably around 220.
*Edit* It’s an ‘86? You’re probably making a little lower than 220.
Maybe think about converting to mass air if you haven’t.

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One more thing. I’m not all that savvy with speed density, but I think you have to choose the cam wisely or there can be idle issues. More so than with mass air.
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To get more, you really have to deal with the 'weakest link' in the horsepower chain. Right now, with your E6 heads, that is definitely the part holding you back, power-wise. Your TW heads will fix that, but then you have to deal with your speed density fuel injection being off from the better flow. Then the weak link becomes your restrictive exhaust system. So you fix that, and then your cam will probably be the most restrictive part. However - it is also important to note that the stock cam on these, with good heads, makes for a really good street combo. You get a very flat, broad torque curve, with lots of fun from idle to redline, and you can get decent mileage too. Peak horsepower isn't the 'big deal' with a street car. Big *average* horsepower makes for a lot more fun.

Putting in a hotter cam will get you more torque, and more horsepower with those heads for sure. But even if you upgrade, be careful not to just toss in a cam designed for high RPM power with a lot of overlap - especially if you have an automatic. It won't do you any good to have a car that makes tons of power at 6500 RPMs when it's a real dog off the line, and can barely get out of its own way. At that point, your 'weak link' would be gearing and transmission!

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 1 Week Ago Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
This guy made 270.
https://www.corral.net/threads/how-m...1433164/page-3
Right now you’re probably around 220.
*Edit* It’s an ‘86? You’re probably making a little lower than 220.
Maybe think about converting to mass air if you haven’t.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
One more thing. I’m not all that savvy with speed density, but I think you have to choose the cam wisely or there can be idle issues. More so than with mass air.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
To get more, you really have to deal with the 'weakest link' in the horsepower chain. Right now, with your E6 heads, that is definitely the part holding you back, power-wise. Your TW heads will fix that, but then you have to deal with your speed density fuel injection being off from the better flow. Then the weak link becomes your restrictive exhaust system. So you fix that, and then your cam will probably be the most restrictive part. However - it is also important to note that the stock cam on these, with good heads, makes for a really good street combo. You get a very flat, broad torque curve, with lots of fun from idle to redline, and you can get decent mileage too. Peak horsepower isn't the 'big deal' with a street car. Big *average* horsepower makes for a lot more fun.

Putting in a hotter cam will get you more torque, and more horsepower with those heads for sure. But even if you upgrade, be careful not to just toss in a cam designed for high RPM power with a lot of overlap - especially if you have an automatic. It won't do you any good to have a car that makes tons of power at 6500 RPMs when it's a real dog off the line, and can barely get out of its own way. At that point, your 'weak link' would be gearing and transmission!
Thank you everyone great info exactly what I was hoping to hear. 270 wheel hp would be great compared to what it makes now plus wouldn’t fall flat on its face at like 4K rpms like does now with e6 heads. I do have a full exhaust system 2.5” slp lm1 with cattles x pipe and person who owned it before did mass air conversion. Only one other possible deciding factor I completely forgot to add is the guy who owned the fox before me put some 4.10s in the rear. Couple that with a manual t5 it really winds the rpms out quick so idk if hotter cam maybe better? Also have 24# injectors to go with cobra intake just need better fuel pump otherwise no idea what previous owner installed for a pump.
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24# injectors with E6 heads!? Seems like it’d be running around fairly rich.
I have a “mild cam” with E7’s and for a little while it had the stock 2.73 gear. Low speed drivability was pretty cruddy. It’d buck and chug at low speeds if the rpms were below 2,500 or there arounds. Later I went to a 3.73 gear and the low speed bucking cleared up. However it was running out of RPM with very little speed. There’s not much point to this other than pick a cam that matches the stall speed of an auto or rear gear for a manual. Since you already have 4.10’s I don’t think you’ll have any issues like mine with 2.73’s if you went with an aftermarket cam though. Idle issues and possibly running lean might be something to watch out for for though with a stock cam or not. The 170cc heads will be letting in a bit more air than the E6’s. I don’t know if the stock “tune” will add enough fuel on its own even with the 24# injectors. They might have to be “told” to spray longer. Maybe not, but if that’s the case, how are you going to tell them to do so?
I suppose though people have been adding new top ends to EFI mustangs long before “computer tuning” was a mainstream thing. I guess they used adjustable fuel pressure regulators and advanced the timing via the distributor and hoped for the best. Heck, you’re running around with 24 pound injectors on a 200 horse motor now, so I guess it’ll be alright with the larger heads.
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Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
24# injectors with E6 heads!? Seems like it’d be running around fairly rich.
I have a “mild cam” with E7’s and for a little while it had the stock 2.73 gear. Low speed drivability was pretty cruddy. It’d buck and chug at low speeds if the rpms were below 2,500 or there arounds. Later I went to a 3.73 gear and the low speed bucking cleared up. However it was running out of RPM with very little speed. There’s not much point to this other than pick a cam that matches the stall speed of an auto or rear gear for a manual. Since you already have 4.10’s I don’t think you’ll have any issues like mine with 2.73’s if you went with an aftermarket cam though. Idle issues and possibly running lean might be something to watch out for for though with a stock cam or not. The 170cc heads will be letting in a bit more air than the E6’s. I don’t know if the stock “tune” will add enough fuel on its own even with the 24# injectors. They might have to be “told” to spray longer. Maybe not, but if that’s the case, how are you going to tell them to do so?
I suppose though people have been adding new top ends to EFI mustangs long before “computer tuning” was a mainstream thing. I guess they used adjustable fuel pressure regulators and advanced the timing via the distributor and hoped for the best. Heck, you’re running around with 24 pound injectors on a 200 horse motor now, so I guess it’ll be alright with the larger heads.
Thank you for the info. I actually have some factory 19# injectors and Stock intake on the 86 right now cobra and 24# injectors are ready to install set to the side. It did have the 24# injectors installed when I first got car don't know why they installed them but ran way to rich lol. So i think I'm gonna go with tfs cam and try to see if one of those calibrated maf sensors work. Supposedly they work pretty good
Thanks again everyone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James408 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
24# injectors with E6 heads!? Seems like it’d be running around fairly rich.
I have a “mild cam” with E7’s and for a little while it had the stock 2.73 gear. Low speed drivability was pretty cruddy. It’d buck and chug at low speeds if the rpms were below 2,500 or there arounds. Later I went to a 3.73 gear and the low speed bucking cleared up. However it was running out of RPM with very little speed. There’s not much point to this other than pick a cam that matches the stall speed of an auto or rear gear for a manual. Since you already have 4.10’s I don’t think you’ll have any issues like mine with 2.73’s if you went with an aftermarket cam though. Idle issues and possibly running lean might be something to watch out for for though with a stock cam or not. The 170cc heads will be letting in a bit more air than the E6’s. I don’t know if the stock “tune” will add enough fuel on its own even with the 24# injectors. They might have to be “told” to spray longer. Maybe not, but if that’s the case, how are you going to tell them to do so?
I suppose though people have been adding new top ends to EFI mustangs long before “computer tuning” was a mainstream thing. I guess they used adjustable fuel pressure regulators and advanced the timing via the distributor and hoped for the best. Heck, you’re running around with 24 pound injectors on a 200 horse motor now, so I guess it’ll be alright with the larger heads.
Thank you for the info. I actually have some factory 19# injectors and Stock intake on the 86 right now cobra and 24# injectors are ready to install set to the side. It did have the 24# injectors installed when I first got car don't know why they installed them but ran way to rich lol. So i think I'm gonna go with tfs cam and try to see if one of those calibrated maf sensors work. Supposedly they work pretty good
Thanks again everyone
I think the calibrated meters can be hit or miss. Here’s a decent write up on how they work. http://www.efidynotuning.com/maf101.htm
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Originally Posted by 90lxwhite View Post
24# injectors with E6 heads!? Seems like it’d be running around fairly rich.
I have a “mild cam” with E7’s and for a little while it had the stock 2.73 gear. Low speed drivability was pretty cruddy. It’d buck and chug at low speeds if the rpms were below 2,500 or there arounds. Later I went to a 3.73 gear and the low speed bucking cleared up. However it was running out of RPM with very little speed. There’s not much point to this other than pick a cam that matches the stall speed of an auto or rear gear for a manual. Since you already have 4.10’s I don’t think you’ll have any issues like mine with 2.73’s if you went with an aftermarket cam though. Idle issues and possibly running lean might be something to watch out for for though with a stock cam or not. The 170cc heads will be letting in a bit more air than the E6’s. I don’t know if the stock “tune” will add enough fuel on its own even with the 24# injectors. They might have to be “told” to spray longer. Maybe not, but if that’s the case, how are you going to tell them to do so?
I suppose though people have been adding new top ends to EFI mustangs long before “computer tuning” was a mainstream thing. I guess they used adjustable fuel pressure regulators and advanced the timing via the distributor and hoped for the best. Heck, you’re running around with 24 pound injectors on a 200 horse motor now, so I guess it’ll be alright with the larger heads.
Thank you for the info. I actually have some factory 19# injectors and Stock intake on the 86 right now cobra and 24# injectors are ready to install set to the side. It did have the 24# injectors installed when I first got car don't know why they installed them but ran way to rich lol. So i think I'm gonna go with tfs cam and try to see if one of those calibrated maf sensors work. Supposedly they work pretty good
Thanks again everyone
I think the calibrated meters can be hit or miss. Here’s a decent write up on how they work. http://www.efidynotuning.com/maf101.htm
Ok now I got how those work thank you. Basically its "tricking" the computer. I can see how it could be an issue esp if meter isn't reading right but I think I can get away with one for temporary street use should be ok... hopefully. Lol
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 23 Hours Ago
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19# injectors are usually just fine up to 300 horsepower. Keep in mind, if you were driving at Bonneville, it might be better to go with the next size up - long runs at WOT might strain them a bit if you really are making 300. But on the other hand, your stock computer doesn't need to be fooled to use them, even with some upgrades. It will pay attention to actual airflow, IF you have Mass Air.

If you do not have the mass air setup (and it wasn't on Mustangs till '89, except Cali which got it in 88 I think) then with these upgrades, you *really* need to figure out an aftermarket engine management solution, or it will not run well. Or it will run great! But put holes in your pistons. Or foul your plugs. Etc. So - bottom line - before upgrading heads/cam/etc, make sure you have some way for it to figure out what to do with the extra air and fuel it will be getting. If you really are getting significantly over 300 hp, you might consider upgrading the injectors, but the 19's would probably be simpler overall, and deliver the same horsepower. The factory computers (even with mass air) tend to run on the side of caution just a bit anyway, and they try to go rich rather than lean. Rich burns too much gas and carbons things up, but lean breaks and burns expensive things.

I would definitely not try using a 'calibrated meter' with a speed density system and these new parts! You're never going to get what you want that way.

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