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post #31 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012 Thread Starter
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I was told to put in everything but the thickest shim and the carrier, then take a flat head, spread apart a few shims and stick the thickest shim in, then drive it in with a hammer. I think there is a tool to pound in the shim.

Well, I did see the race getting crooked and popping back into place after the shim got about 3/4 in. I guess that is why I checked the race and seen the damage. Then I read to install the races and shims all at the same time and tap it in. Man, that seems close to impossible.

How do you do it? I got some ideas I just wonder how you did yours?


95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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I put the differential in with the bearing races. Then I put in the left shim. I use a screwdriver to push everything to the left side and start the right shim in place. Then I tap the shim in all the way while trying to keep the race as flat on the bearing as I can. You must be using one of those Ratech shim sets. The super shim sets are much better and easier to use. If you have the Ratech set them put a thick shim on the inside and outside and the thin shims in the middle and tap everything in at the same time. I hate the Ratech shims. They are too hard to use.


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post #33 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-24-2012 Thread Starter
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I have the ford racing master install kit but it has the same shims as the Ratech kit I got from Summit on Tuesday.
It has two good size shims and a bunch of small ones.

I was reading that a bunch of small shims are not as good as one solid shim on each side.

95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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post #34 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-28-2012 Thread Starter
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This is the new pressed on pinion bearing and the sleeve crushed.
The pinion turning torque is 27 inch lbs. I wanted about 22 but it gets tight fast. The spec is 16 to 29 inch lbs. The backlash is .010

27 inch lbs. pinion turning torque
.030 pinion shim
.009 backlash
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95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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That's a nice looking pattern. I don't understand the curve at the heel of the drive pattern, but overall it looks good. 27 inch pounds should be all right. There are many opinions on pinion bearing preload. I've seen some GM specs as high as 35, but I would never go that high.

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post #36 of 50 (permalink) Old 05-29-2012 Thread Starter
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I think I might end up going with this pattern. I do not really understand why so much of the paint gets wiped off.
My pattern is so big compared to all the other patterns I find online.

But I can see where more pressure is, about in the center, on the drive side and closer to the toe on the coast side.

Maybe if I use less paint, turn it by the pinion and apply resistance to the ring the pattern will look different...

I also got another opinion about the blue loctite, It was a new clean ring gear with new clean bolts with plenty of loctite. I guess it will be ok. I staked the pinion nut and will mark it and check it. I think it will be ok.

But I will probably use red next time. :laughlitt

95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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There is nothing wrong with the pattern that you have. It's just about perfect. You did everything right, so don't sweat it.

Turning the gears by the pinion will give you a chopped up pattern that is harder to read. When you turn it with the axle you can make longer smoother turns, which makes a more clear pattern that is easier to read.

The blue lock tite should be fine. Many people don't use any at all, so you are far ahead of them.

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post #38 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-02-2012 Thread Starter
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I had a few things I was worried about like the pinion turning torque.

I thought it was at around 27-28 and the spec is 16-29. But when I checked it again a few day later and about 30 degrees colder I got about 29-30inch lbs.

I also rechecked my backlash on about 20 teeth and and found the largest to be about .009 down to about .008. Spec is .009 to .015. My ring gear runout is .002

One other thing is, I had some carrier bearing preload but not enough, I could grab the carrier and pull on it a few times and pull it out pretty easy, so I figured it was not enough.

So it was about out of spec on the tight side but a good pattern so I decided to get another crush sleeve and do it again.

I got the pinion turning torque to 23 inch lbs.
I didn't have the exact carrier shims I needed but I got the backlash almost to where it was. It is about .0005 looser. So .0095 - .0085 .

Old set up:
.008 -.009 ------- Backlash
29 - 30 inch lbs.-- Pinion turning torque
.002 -------------Ring gear runout - (spec is .002-.004)

New setup:
.0085 - .0095-------Backlash
22 - 23 inch lbs.----Pinion turning torque
.002 ---------------Ring gear runout - (spec is .002-.004)

The pattern is more concentrated on the heal on the drive side and toe on the coast side. As I move the ring gear closer to the pinion the pattern gets more centered. But at this point I will have to take a shim out of the opposite side as the ring and file it down some to move it about .001. to move my backlash .0005 to get my backlash to .008 -.009

So should I file a shim .001 to move the pattern and decrease the backlash?

I have confidence that the pattern can get just like it was with the previous pictures cause I put that same shim set back in and it was the same.

OK pictures again! sorry
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95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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Something got messed up a little this time. Looks like the pinion might be just a little deep, or the backlash might be causing the problem. If you set the backlash to .007 to .008 does it look better? Setting the backlash to .007 isn't going to hurt anything if that's what it takes to get the pattern correct.

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post #40 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-02-2012 Thread Starter
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When I put in the carrier shims from the pictures last week the pattern " I think" looks the same as last week when they were good.

It is me trying to get the proper carrier bearing preload and that is messing with the backlash. .. I hope thats all. The pinion depth should not have changed. But I was wondering if it did. But it couldn't haha idono.


anyway I got a quick picture after I got it down to .008
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95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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post #41 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-02-2012 Thread Starter
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I got it almost exactly like the memorial day pictures.
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95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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The pinion might be about .001 or .002 too deep, but I wouldn't mess with changing it. I think it will be just fine like it is.

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post #43 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-03-2012 Thread Starter
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This is a PITA.

I guess I will go with this then.

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post #44 of 50 (permalink) Old 06-03-2012 Thread Starter
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I guess I just noticed that as the ring gear runout changes the backlash changes and the pattern changes.

I figured that happened, but just measured it and checked the patterns. So this has been messing with me the whole time. I would check backlash on the teeth meshing with the the pinion and paint teeth directly on the opposite side of the ring gear. Where the backlash would be not what I just measured cause of the run out. Then change shims and replace the carrier in a totally different spot and measure again getting a backlash measurement from a different spot ..just messing things up basically.

I checked ring gear run out along with backlash and noticed that for every .001 in runout the backlash changes .001.
I have a total of .002 runout and my backlash changes .002 from .008 to .010.

I GUESS the pictures up there that you said were "about perfect" must have been painted on a spot that was .007 . Cause the tighter I get the backlash the more It gets like that picture.

I understand that going from 27 inch lbs to 22 inch lbs PTT could change pinion depth but I wouldn't think it would change very much at all. Not enough for the average person to measure anyway.

I have to think, just the backlash changed.
The ring gear run out on the stock setup before I took it apart was .004, so its half what it was.

At this point, taking 4 measurements the average ring gear runout is .009

These pictures are the same shims just opposite sides of the ring gear. one side .010 backlash the other side .008 backlash.

.010 is the two on the left - .008 is the two on the right
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95 Stock 302, MSD Coil/Cap/Rotor/Wires, BBK CAI, GYB coolant hoses, Aeromotive fpsireg, Walbro 190lph, SLP 1, TKO 500, Zoom Flywheel, Sachs Clutch & King Cobra P/P, Ford clutch cable/MM firewall adj. & quadrant, FRPP C springs, Bilstein, M&M CC plates, Urethane Bushings, M&M Stainless Steel braided brake hose, Hawk HPS pads, drilled rotors, new rack. Steeda billet interior trim, Rockford Fosgate /Infinity/Dyna-mat Extreme
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Yea, the tighter backlash does look better. Changing the pinion bearing preload will change the pinion depth slighly. Probably about .001 in your case. When using a solid pinion spacer a .001 change in the spacer shim can change the bearing preload about 5 inch pounds or more. This is why I always tell people to set the preload exactly the same for every trial assembly because inconsistant bearing preload will give false pattern readings. If you make a pinion shim change and don't set the preload the same then the shim change might look like it didn't do anything at all, or it might look like it went the wrong way or too far in the right way. I think you are still about .001 or .002 too deep, but it should be just fine like this.


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