65 coupe rewire, now smoke! Help! - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019 Thread Starter
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65 coupe rewire, now smoke! Help!

Ok, after starting with a headlight harness, then taillight harness, I the realized I needed a new dash harness after I cut out an old alarm system anPO had installed, probably in the 80ís.

Tried to install a 1-wire hi amp alternator, but it was too deep for my brackets and so I returned it, ordered another and while I was waiting I reinstalled the old alternator to test my new wiring.

As soon as I touched the battery negative terminal with the ground cable, sparks, and the a pop noise and hiss as a wire behind the old alternator smokechecked one of the wires in the alternator harness.

Upon looking at the harness I noticed that it was the Black/Yellow that is supposed to be the test pigtail, but I had wired it direct to the Batt+.

I should note that the PO installed an easily 90ís F1SA Ford Remanufactured carbureted 302, that has the new style starter with start relay/solenoid on the starter, and the PO had deleted the starter solenoid. So when I reinstalled my old alternator after the 1-wire didnít fit, I ran the solid yellow coming from the headlight harness, straight to the side post positive side of the battery. But then. Dumb me ran a piece of 10-12 gauge from the black/yellow test lead on the back of the alternator, straight to the top post positive side of the battery.

After it burnt through, I cut that wire completely and re-attached the battery negative with no sparks, got in, put key in and went to Accessory and run/on and go nothing...

I checked all the fuses, none blown. Where should I start trouble shooting?

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019
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A pop and a hiss is not a good sign. Not sure where to start on this one. Fuseable Link in the pos power lead off the batt?? Not standard on a 65 but what else did the previous owner do besides the 302.

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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019 Thread Starter
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A few things, besides a Clifford alarm spliced all throughout the dash harness, he deleted the starter relay. Other than some funky wiring harness rerouting through the wheel wells they didnít add or subtract much of the wiring other than electric windows in he doors and a new stereo.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-17-2019
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Originally Posted by Navyflyer72 View Post
A few things, besides a Clifford alarm spliced all throughout the dash harness, he deleted the starter relay. Other than some funky wiring harness rerouting through the wheel wells they didnít add or subtract much of the wiring other than electric windows in he doors and a new stereo.
This sounds like you are in an electrical sh-storm.

There are many after market starters that have the solenoid built into the starter. You can easily tell because there is a 4 gauge wire (power) and a 10 gauge wire (trigger) going to that type of starter.

These cars were made with 40 amp alternators, or 55 for a highly optioned model, and the wire is sized for that. It's hard to find a modern alternator that puts out less than 100 amps. I use a 100 amp alternator routinely in restorations, but I up-size the wire from it to the battery, and to a new fuse panel. Then I use a fuse from the new panel to feed the old panel. I take all the high amp or any new accessories (big stereo, power windows, lights, horn, etc.) and feed them from the new panel. For the lights and horn, I use the original wiring and switches to trigger relays, removing as much load as possible from the dash area.

Keep in mind that the new alternator also requires an up-sized ground wire. You should also install a fuse between it and the battery, rated for the alternator amperage. This takes the place of a fusable link, the purpose of which is to prevent a fire should the wiring in the alternator ground out and attempt to get every bit of energy from the battery.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-21-2019
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If you already spent good money on those harnesses specially the underdash one which is by far the most pricey, i'd finish up the wiring on the vehicle. Buy a good starter solenoid and do it the right way, and if you are worried about the starter having its own starter solenoid this can be solved by bypassing it. Last year i bought me this one https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9603/overview/ nothing to it. I'm not sure how many mods you want to put on this car and if that's the case you will be better off getting an independent fuse box. I put one in to power my electric fan and so far im very pleased with the way it has performed. I should remind you by going with the stock wiring you wont be able to use 1 wire alternator.



J


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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019
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Quote:
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Keep in mind that the new alternator also requires an up-sized ground wire. You should also install a fuse between it and the battery, rated for the alternator amperage. This takes the place of a fusable link, the purpose of which is to prevent a fire should the wiring in the alternator ground out and attempt to get every bit of energy from the battery.
Fusible links are used to protect the alternator, primarily there to avoid burning out their diodes in the unusual, but plausible, case where an a$$hole connects jumper cables backwards. NO GROUND wire should ever contain a fuse link, or a fuse.

I've yet to see the alternator you describe which has a ground wire attached to it. The ground current path for the alternator is through the diodes, connected to the alternator's housing, which is automatically grounded when it is fastened to the head or block.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019
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Ford used a ground wire on the alternator. In fact, they had a ground at each end of the #26 wire.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-22-2019
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Fusible links are used to protect the alternator, primarily there to avoid burning out their diodes in the unusual, but plausible, case where an a$$hole connects jumper cables backwards. NO GROUND wire should ever contain a fuse link, or a fuse.

I've yet to see the alternator you describe which has a ground wire attached to it. The ground current path for the alternator is through the diodes, connected to the alternator's housing, which is automatically grounded when it is fastened to the head or block.
I wasn't clear with my language, I should have been more specific and state that the fuse should be on the alternator hot.

I always provide a ground wire to the alternator on my builds. I'm a bit of a stickler like that. On my TBird build I even have the heads grounded, because I did not find zero resistance between them and the block (maybe it's the coating on the ARP bolts). It's impossible to have too many grounds.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-23-2019
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Quote:
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I wasn't clear with my language, I should have been more specific and state that the fuse should be on the alternator hot.

I always provide a ground wire to the alternator on my builds. I'm a bit of a stickler like that. On my TBird build I even have the heads grounded, because I did not find zero resistance between them and the block (maybe it's the coating on the ARP bolts). It's impossible to have too many grounds.
Absolutely right you are! My '94 GT came with a Mach 460 Sound System, which I don't know jack squat about, a couple of humongous in the trunk behind insulation and back of the rear seat, underhood there were battery-cable sized grounding wires from the battery negative post, to the strut, from the strut to the throttle body, then from there to the RH side of the block. A bright red wire at least #6AWG, maybe 4, ran through a big cartridge fuse holder in-line, all the way back to the trunk area. I chopped that guy off quick. Radio plays good, no complaints.

You obviously understand Electric Theory. Ground as much as you like, I liked the heads & block idea, just don't ground anything having B+ on it!
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019 Thread Starter
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I continued wiring and swapped every harness in the car this summer. Just recently got it all wrapped up, but I made a bunch of changes to the engine bay (new Aluminum radiator with 3800cfm electric fan, Miloden 7qt oil pan and new hi-capacity oil pump, short water pump, 140amp 1-wire powermaster alternator, new Sanden a/c compressor, CVF racing brackets and pulleys, GM style power steering pump, ARP bolts and studs everywhere, Dakota Digital VHX gauges, full TCP shock tower and engine bay reinforcement bars to replace old import brace and Monte Carlo bar, retrosound stereo and QA-1 shocks on all four corners).

Ended up getting a starter solenoid and I wired it up to act as a relay to run power to the starter. Upgraded to 4 gauge cable between alternator and battery with a 150amp mega fuse between them then run off the battery side of the fuse to the start solenoid and from Batt+ on start solenoid to the starter power lug. Run 10ga wire off the other side of the start solenoid to the trigger on the starter solenoid. Works very well.

My big issue now is with my right turn signal and brake lights. I have brake lights on steady whenever I go to headlights on. With the Headlights off, my brakes work like normal, turn headlight on and brake lights come on steady and no change when hitting the brake pedal. One direction of turn signal works like normal, to include the sequential rear turn signal, but throw the lever to the other side turn signal and three lights (both rear and one front turn signal) start flashing like hazard lights, or like regular turn signal blinkers.

Have I told you guys how much I love wiring...
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Quote:
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I
My big issue now is with my right turn signal and brake lights. I have brake lights on steady whenever I go to headlights on. With the Headlights off, my brakes work like normal, turn headlight on and brake lights come on steady and no change when hitting the brake pedal. One direction of turn signal works like normal, to include the sequential rear turn signal, but throw the lever to the other side turn signal and three lights (both rear and one front turn signal) start flashing like hazard lights, or like regular turn signal blinkers.

Have I told you guys how much I love wiring...
Any time you have this kind of issue I'd check all the turns signal and taillamp bulbs! 1157 1156 and 1142 all look similar but won't work the same some are twin contacts ground and hot. other have twin contacts hot and intermitent that ground through the socket housing. the wiring on the lamp sockets changes somewhat year to year some have a separate ground lug other years don't, sometimes FORD changed them in the same model year. this is especially true with 65-66 back up lamps i always had to change the bulbs when customers couldn't get them to work.
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I'D RATHER GO SLOW THAN NOT GO AT ALL
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