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1966 6cyl crank no start

3K views 16 replies 6 participants last post by  07redstang 
#1 · (Edited)
Sorry it's so long. Greetings,


When I bought this Mustang the guy was waiting on a new float, the old one was full of gas, wouldn't float. I was there
when his neighbor brought the new float over, put it in and it started right up. I drove it around awhile and thought what
the hey bought it and drove it home, about 8 miles.

It ran well plenty of power. Smoked a little and would spit carbon on startup so I checked the air/fuel mix screw which I
am told should be approx 1 1/2 turns out. This thing was 6 turns out. About to fall out. So It seemed to smooth out at
about 2 1/4 turns out. Didn't smoke or spit on a short test drive.

Then I popped the dist cap and the whole thing moved. It has the stock steel vacuum lines so I just tighted it down where
it wanted to be. Checked the gap which was around .024. Closed it up and never got it to start again over a period of 3
days check fuel, check spark, check timing with a light with vacuum off and cranking. Loosened the dist and would turn it a little to
get lucky but it wasn't even trying to hit.

So on a Monday morning I had it towed to a reputable shop here.. They rebuilt the carb and replaced the
distributor. The mechanic said he put 10 miles on it and all seemed good.

I put 30 or 40 miles on it over a two day period. Then on day three I got half a mile from the house, running fine, and it
started bucking and backfired and died. It did not start the first few times I tried to restart. So I sat there enjoying
the compliments from the people driving by about how nice the car looked for a few minutes, tried to start again and it
did, got it back home. Put it in the garage. Temp outside and inside 68 deg. The carb and dist are the correct matches for
this motor and trans. Autolite 1100 with the little wheel and load-o-matic dist with the 2 springs on the plate.

The old guy I bought this from said it never did this to him. I pretty much believe him and think this problem may have
been set off by something his next door neighbor did or did't do in fooling with the carb. I think the shop I took it to
had a really hard time with it making sense (took 3 days) so they started changing parts until it started. I think they
got lucky and it ran for a few days. The mech that worked on it said he had a full head of hair when he started on it,
he's smooth bald now.

Yesterday I set the points to .024 from .016 which it either slipped or that is where the mechanic set them and it started
right up. I was in heaven. Let it run to warm up, seems to have a little miss in it. Shut it off let it set a bit and it
hasn't started since.

I really don't want to take it back to that shop and run up another bill. Hopefully someone in this forum will have the
experience with this intermittent crank no start.



Thanks for reading, Bobby
 
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#2 ·
That's the problem with most mechanic shops these days, no troubleshooting, they just throw parts at things hoping it will fix the problem. I hope they saved your old parts for you.

Nowhere in your post does it mention what the resulting dwell setting is or what timing was set to? When you change the point gap (dwell setting) it also changes timing. Adjusting the carb is not about how many turns of the A/F mixture screws are turned out but the amount of vacuum or rpms you get when adjusting with either a vacuum gauge or tach.

I would get a timing light, a tach/dwell meter, and a vacuum gauge to do a proper tune. The reason again that it won't start is the timing.
 
#3 ·
All I can do at this point is a static time in the hope it will start. Even though it has started many times and driven a few miles I have never been convinced the timing was correct. Because: when the timing marks point to 6 btdc and the piston is on the compression stroke visibly at tdc the rotor is already halfway past the number one near to number five cylinder firing.


So I suppose I will restab the dist to having the rotor point at #1 with the points just beginning to open and see what happens. Does that sound like a logical course of action? And thank you for your directions.
 
#4 ·
Re-setting your distributor sounds like your best bet. When your timing marks line up, the distributor should point to the #1 post (or very close) if you're on a compression stroke (or directly opposite #1 if the distributor is 180* out of time). Make sure your distributor hold-down bolt is tight after setting.
 
#5 ·
Restabbing the distributor is not necessary unless there is interference preventing you from adjusting the timing. It does not care what position its installed in. All that matters is that the firing order is correct and the position of the rotor when it fires. Try hooking up a timing light and adjust the timing while your cranking the engine.

What may have happened is the rubber in the balancer failed and allowed the outer ring to slip throwing everything off.
 
#6 ·
Travis
I have been trying to do what you are describing. I have the timing mark at TDC and confirmed that the piston is TDC on the compression stroke but when I turn the dist to point at or near #1 on the cap the points are on the flat portion of the shaft.
 
#9 ·
With these types of problems never assume that anything that a previous owner or mechanic did is correct. Check everything associated with timing first, worry about the carburetor later.

Mentioned previously was the damper on the engine pulley may have slipped so you need to confirm that. Find TDC on the compression stroke and verify it by looking down the plug hole while turning the crank by hand and confirming that the #1 piston is at the very top. Then check your timing mark.

While at TDC verify that the distributor is lined up correctly on the engine. The rotor should be at about 1:00. If not, take it out and reset the distributor correctly. Set your points to the proper gap. Use an ohm meter to verify that you have zero resistance between the battery negative and the internals of the distributor.

Verify that the plugs are gapped correctly. Very that the wires are routed at the correct sequence, and that the connectors are tight. Use a smidge of dielectric grease on the boots to seal them properly.
 
#11 ·
Check the wire that runs from the coil- terminal to the points. If you have a tach wired in, temporarily disconnect it for now. Remove the existing wires from the coil+ terminal and run a jumper wire from the battery to the coil+ and try starting it with the key. If it does start in order to turn it off you'll need to remove the jumper.
 
#12 ·
Thank you all for hanging in here with me.

I bought the Ford shop manual for 1966 and ran through all the specs to make sure points and plugs are correct and the firing order is correct and with a timing light while cranking only set the timing at 6deg btdc. Also removed the valve cover and #1 spark plug to make sure the piston was tdc with both valves closed when I would move the timing marks to 6deg btdc. Even though the dist was replaced at a shop I am going to buy a new cap and condenser on the way home from work today. I always get spark but am not real comfortable with my ability to tell weak from good spark. Would it maybe be red from white?

I tried the jumper wire from the +battery to the +coil after removing the lead from the ignition and it still would not start by pouring gas in the original rebuilt carb while cranking or with the new rebuilt carb which pours it's own gas.

I had decided to buy a rebuilt carb because when operating the throttle there did not seem to be enough gas coming from the accelerator pump outlet. When I removed the old carb this morning there was gas just sitting in the bottom of the intake manifold. I put the rebuilt carb in and it definitely was squirting gas. I then put a vacuum gauge I borrowed from work and while cranking came up with 0 vacuum and of course it would not start. I have previously run compression test on all cylinders and they all showed 150 psi. I don't understand how it can read 0 inHG. I am borrowing another gauge to make sure it's not a fluke.



Thank You All for your help. Bobby
 
#13 ·
So, It's alive, and strong. As stated above on the way home I stopped and purchased a new made in America all of them, Cap, Rotor and Condenser for this 1966 Mustang 200cu in 6cyl. Changed the old for the new with a smidge of dielectric grease on the contacts and it roared to life. RPMs about 850, manifold vacuum between 18 and 1750 slight miss. But it is running. Thank You All
 
#15 ·
I didn't really make that statement very clear. I put the grease on the spark plug wires where they go into the dist cap. Do you recommend putting some on the point contacts and or the wear strip?

I need to get the idle down to 600 or so and then recheck timing and dwell. The shop manual says that you can go up to 5deg over the 6deg btdc for better fuel economy. Does it work that way?



Thanks, again
 
#17 ·
I didn't really make that statement very clear. I put the grease on the spark plug wires where they go into the dist cap. Do you recommend putting some on the point contacts and or the wear strip?

I recommend putting some light oil on the felt for the points wear strip if equipped or a very light coat of grease on the distributor cam lobes.

I need to get the idle down to 600 or so and then recheck timing and dwell. The shop manual says that you can go up to 5deg over the 6deg btdc for better fuel economy. Does it work that way?



Thanks, again
Dwell won't vary much with rpm, timing will start to increase above idle rpms. Yes you can set your timing between 6 and 12*BTDC @550-650ish rpm. You'll need to readjust the carb a/f mixture screws last to get the best idle quality.
 
#16 ·
You can usually set the idle speed of a manual car to 600 and it will idle happily. Auto cars tend to like a higher idle speed at around 800 or 900 rpm.
As for your timing, use the manual as a guide or just set it at what makes the car run nicely.

Well done on getting a shop manual, as you now have discovered, it is the best thing you have brought for your car.
 
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