1966 Mustang Not Running - Ford Mustang Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-08-2020 Thread Starter
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1966 Mustang Not Running

Hello,

Having some issues with my mustang.

Its a 4v Carb 302.

I changed spark plugs/wires, did an oil change etc, now the car is not starting..

It seems to turn over and kill relatively quickly..

Im not sure about the firing order being correct.. I replugged it 1-by-1 but now running into issues.

Hopefully someone can help here, I honestly can only do this myself, not sure if that narrows it down since I wont be able to have someone else crank the car..Nobody else around.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020
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Well, it takes air, heat, fuel for these to run......swag is you got an ignition (plug) wire crossed... you can very easily have a bad plug wire as well (even though new).


IMHO...1st check the firing order to make sure it's right, then put the old plug wires back on.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020
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Welcome to AFM, Dak!

With plug wires, the first thing you need to figure out is TDC compression for the #1 piston. So, pull your #1 plug. Then disconnect your center spark plug wire so there's no way the car can start, no matter what. Turn the engine over by hand until you hear air whooshing out the spark plug hole. That means you're on the compression stroke. Then, put something that won't mar the piston, and can't fall in, down the spark plug hole - like a dowel. Figure out when the piston's at the exact top of its travel, and you have top dead center for the compression stroke!

Now you can look at your timing marks on the front of the engine and see if they're correct. Sometimes the pointer gets changed, or the damper does, and things don't line up. At this point, if it doesn't match, not to worry; take a paint pen (or some other marking device) and put a mark on your damper.

Next, take the top off your dizzy. Check to see where the bug is pointing. By tradition, it should be aiming for the #1 cylinder, but this is not critical. If it's not, and this bothers you, you'll have to pull the distributor and re-seat it until the bug's where you want it. The vac advance can needs to be aimed toward the front/driver side, so it has the most room to turn. Next, put your cap back on, and then hook up your #1 plug wire to the closest terminal for where the bug's at.

If you have a flat-tappet cam, your firing order is 15426378, and the bug spins counterclockwise. If you're running a roller cam, the order is different: 13726548. If you get all that in the ballpark, your engine should roar to life after you finish hooking everything up! Then with the vacuum to your distributor disconnected and plugged, you can set mechanical timing.

If your damper is a factory one, be sure to check the elastomer that the ring sits on. If it looks all cracked and dead, it probably is. Often, that will let the harmonic damper spin - and since our engines are externally balanced, that's really bad. It also makes them impossible to time accurately.

Hope this helps!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020
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All you did was replace the plug wires. Since it won't start check the coil wire first. Use a little dielectric grease on each boot and make sure the spark plug end goes "click" when you insert it. The distributor end should click too, but won't be as prominent.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beechkid View Post
Well, it takes air, heat, fuel for these to run......swag is you got an ignition (plug) wire crossed... you can very easily have a bad plug wire as well (even though new).


IMHO...1st check the firing order to make sure it's right, then put the old plug wires back on.
Well.. I believe I have the firing order correct atleast from what I've checked vs online.. 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.

I did also change spark plugs but I made sure they were gapped correctly and went hand-tight then 1/2 turn tighter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Welcome to AFM, Dak!

With plug wires, the first thing you need to figure out is TDC compression for the #1 piston. So, pull your #1 plug. Then disconnect your center spark plug wire so there's no way the car can start, no matter what. Turn the engine over by hand until you hear air whooshing out the spark plug hole. That means you're on the compression stroke. Then, put something that won't mar the piston, and can't fall in, down the spark plug hole - like a dowel. Figure out when the piston's at the exact top of its travel, and you have top dead center for the compression stroke!

Now you can look at your timing marks on the front of the engine and see if they're correct. Sometimes the pointer gets changed, or the damper does, and things don't line up. At this point, if it doesn't match, not to worry; take a paint pen (or some other marking device) and put a mark on your damper.

Next, take the top off your dizzy. Check to see where the bug is pointing. By tradition, it should be aiming for the #1 cylinder, but this is not critical. If it's not, and this bothers you, you'll have to pull the distributor and re-seat it until the bug's where you want it. The vac advance can needs to be aimed toward the front/driver side, so it has the most room to turn. Next, put your cap back on, and then hook up your #1 plug wire to the closest terminal for where the bug's at.

If you have a flat-tappet cam, your firing order is 15426378, and the bug spins counterclockwise. If you're running a roller cam, the order is different: 13726548. If you get all that in the ballpark, your engine should roar to life after you finish hooking everything up! Then with the vacuum to your distributor disconnected and plugged, you can set mechanical timing.

If your damper is a factory one, be sure to check the elastomer that the ring sits on. If it looks all cracked and dead, it probably is. Often, that will let the harmonic damper spin - and since our engines are externally balanced, that's really bad. It also makes them impossible to time accurately.

Hope this helps!
Thank you for the welcome!

How is the engine turned over by hand? Also about how long would the object im using to check the top of the travel need to be?

Im sorry for all the questions but what is the "bug" on the spark plug rotor? That is the spring clip that is on the top or the metallic edge piece?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-09-2020
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Dak, the stroke of the engine's only 3", so that plus enough length to stick out. Call it 6" or more. You might be tempted to use a long screwdriver, but it could scratch up the pistons, and you don't want that.

As for "how to turn it over by hand", if it has a fixed fan, you can often crank it over by just turning the fan blades. If it has a clutch fan, you would need to find another way. If you've got a lot of hand strength, you might be able to just grab a pulley or belts and turn it. Most people would feel more comfortable using a large socket on the crank pulley bolt, and that has the side benefit of avoiding pinched fingers. A big ratchet or breakover bar will work fine.

When you take off the cap from the distributor, the 'bug' or rotor is the part that spins. It will be made of plastic, with a flat metal spring plate on top and a brass tip that touches each contact on the lid when it's closed up. if the contacts inside the cap, or the end of the rotor are all pitted, black, or torn up, they should be replaced.


Don't forget that there are two "TDC"s for the crank. One is top dead center on the exhaust stroke, and one is top dead center for the compression stroke. Hence the "blowing air out the hole" as the piston comes up. You want the compression stroke.

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Dak, the stroke of the engine's only 3", so that plus enough length to stick out. Call it 6" or more. You might be tempted to use a long screwdriver, but it could scratch up the pistons, and you don't want that.

As for "how to turn it over by hand", if it has a fixed fan, you can often crank it over by just turning the fan blades. If it has a clutch fan, you would need to find another way. If you've got a lot of hand strength, you might be able to just grab a pulley or belts and turn it. Most people would feel more comfortable using a large socket on the crank pulley bolt, and that has the side benefit of avoiding pinched fingers. A big ratchet or breakover bar will work fine.

When you take off the cap from the distributor, the 'bug' or rotor is the part that spins. It will be made of plastic, with a flat metal spring plate on top and a brass tip that touches each contact on the lid when it's closed up. if the contacts inside the cap, or the end of the rotor are all pitted, black, or torn up, they should be replaced.


Don't forget that there are two "TDC"s for the crank. One is top dead center on the exhaust stroke, and one is top dead center for the compression stroke. Hence the "blowing air out the hole" as the piston comes up. You want the compression stroke.

Okay I will get this this today. Ill let you know the results I get. Should be able to start around 6 EST.

So remove coil plug spark plug wire, remove spark plug in position 1, hand crank to until i feel air coming out, where the rotor is pointing is where I should consider starting my #1 sequence for the firing sequence, rotate distributor if necessary.

Think I can handle that, thanks! Like I said ill come back with any results.

I do recall #1 on the distributor being like such.

* 1
5 8


4 | 7


2 \ 3

6 *

Where \ is where the direction where the brass tip is pointing
and * is the clip location, atleast off my memory.

Also, this isnt importing into the message as expected for the distributor layout... it does during my "quote" prior to sending, hopefully it does for you after quoting it..

Thanks for all the help so far! Much appreciated.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-10-2020 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DakMan07 View Post
Okay I will get this this today. Ill let you know the results I get. Should be able to start around 6 EST.

So remove coil plug spark plug wire, remove spark plug in position 1, hand crank to until i feel air coming out, where the rotor is pointing is where I should consider starting my #1 sequence for the firing sequence, rotate distributor if necessary.

Think I can handle that, thanks! Like I said ill come back with any results.

I do recall #1 on the distributor being like such.

* 1
5 8


4 | 7


2 \ 3

6 *

Where \ is where the direction where the brass tip is pointing
and * is the clip location, atleast off my memory.

Also, this isnt importing into the message as expected for the distributor layout... it does during my "quote" prior to sending, hopefully it does for you after quoting it..

Thanks for all the help so far! Much appreciated.

Ok so here is what I found. The marking on the harmonic balancer is correct, however the "bug" is pointing directly at my clip location so it is inbetween two of the plug locations currently. The distributor needs to be rotated then to orient it in the manner that #1 aligns with the rotor at TDC right?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020
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Yep!

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
Yep!
Alright here is where I am now.

I got this repositioned correctly and having the same issues still of it instantly killing off, even with foot on the gas to pepper it, it would die.

I removed the wiring for the choke and pepper it and I can keep it running as long as I keep peppering the gas, it dies right after I let off though.

Any thoughts?

I know the fuel pump isnt that old, I replaced it about 1 1/2 years ago IIRC..



Edit:

Figured it out, the vaccuum caps on the rear of the carb cracked, then I was having issues with the car shifting through gears (automatic), think thats the hoses from the intake manifold that runs down to the vaccuum modulator, let you know when I get that figured out next lmao.

what an eventful week, pretty weird that the rear cap decided to just crack suddenly..
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Last edited by DakMan07; 01-11-2020 at 03:04 PM.
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It's always a good idea to check all the caps and hoses on a 50+ year old engine! Well done.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 01-11-2020 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grimbrand View Post
It's always a good idea to check all the caps and hoses on a 50+ year old engine! Well done.
Yeah, what a relief. Got the vaccuum line fixed for the transmission as well so it's shifting normally again now.

Thanks for all the help!
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 4 Weeks Ago
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Plug wires

Congrats on figuring out the issue. I was going to suggest you check the plug wires to make sure they ends are actually making contact in the distributor cap. Often the length that comes with a set is NOT long enough to reach to contacts in the distributor cap. You have to pull them out to make them long enough. That happened to me the last plug wire change. Simple rookie mistake.
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