Ford Mustang Forum banner

289 Engine block casting numbers

35K views 31 replies 11 participants last post by  Sambo42 
#1 ·
This is in relation to the recent vibration post.

I removed the starter to get to the casting numbers so I can ID the year/place the block was made, so I can make sure I have the correct dampener on. (There was concern that I had a later model 289/302/351 block with the earlier (3-bolt) dampener. Can someone tell me what the casting numbers mean?
1st row (smaller numbers) 6C22
2nd row (larger numbers) OC 5AE-6O15E

I am guessing that it is a 66 casted in Cleveland.

Thanks, Mike
 
#2 ·
Going from memory (at Work), top numbers are casting date, March 22, 1966. Second row, don't know what the OC is but 5AE-6015E again shows a block of 1965 vintage at "E" production level. Not sure there even was a Cleveland plant in 1966.
Dave
 
#4 ·
I think you are missing a number or letter. But its an engine block cast October 22 (my birthday) possibly in 1975? The original questioner back in 2007 was actually seeing a screw head looking blob, not an O, before a casting number of C5AE-6O15-E. The C means 1960s but that block was indeed cast in Cleveland. Your casting number should have a similar format with a leading 'D' meaning 1970s.

I don't know if Dave is still around but the Cleveland foundry was making 289s long before Windsor. Most 'Windsor' small block engines were made in Cleveland. In 1966 they made 'Windsor' 289s in both Windsor and Cleveland.
 
#5 ·
Those are some odd numbers, I had to take a toothbrush and degreaser to mine to get the correct numbers. The first symbol should be a letter and the 2nd a digit:
C=1960's
D=1970's
next digit is year - C5 = '65, C7='67, D0='70, D2='72,etc.

Hurricane, I've never seen 3 letters, try cleaning it again I bet there are numbers there and Hi from Smyrna!
Here's a pic of my '67's block to give an idea:
 

Attachments

  • Like
Reactions: imps
#6 ·
Casting Number Interpretation?

Hi,

I just had my starter off to do the oil pan gasket replacement & took a picture of the casting numbers since I had the chance. My car is a 67 fastback that came with a 289 4v & C4 trans. I know that the engine & trans were replaced by the P.O. about 20 years ago with rebuilt units. I'm just trying to figure out what I've got.

Any searching I've done into casting codes hasn't shed a lot of light on the situation. I was hoping someone here might know.

Thanks!

R.R.
 

Attachments

#11 ·
Some blocks were used to make both 289 and 302s; there wasn't much difference in the block. 1968 is the year to remember. Before 1968 there were no 302s. After 1968 there were no 289s. In 1968 you could have had either. Any block number starting with an 'E' would not have been a 289.
 
#12 ·
O.K., I know the engine isn't original (replaced 20 years ago), so it could be anything. All the feedback so far is that the block is from 1980. If there were no 289's after 68, then for sure the block is from a 302. The question then becomes; did they use a 302 block with 289 heads/internals? That doesn't seem likely. Sounds like I need another method of determining what this engine actually is... Sounds like there are stampings on the heads under the valve covers. I just replaced the gaskets on the heads, but didn't notice any stamping... mind you I wasn't looking for it.

Easter Egg hunt continues...

Thanks for all the feedback. A lot better than what I've been able to come up with on my own.

:)

R.R.
 
#13 ·
...The question then becomes; did they use a 302 block with 289 heads/internals?
Yes, they did. For '68 the C8AE-6015-B blocks carried a 302 marking but Windsor used them to make some of the last 289s. The crankshaft is what determines if it was a 289 or a 302. The pistons were the same, the stroke was longer for a 302. Trying to make a 302 out of a 289 block might run into some clearance problems. Making a 289 out of a 302 block just means using a 289 crank and rods in it.

http://www.fordsmallblock.com/
 
#14 ·
... I get that they CAN do that, I guess what I'm really after is how to know if they DID do that - preferably without taking the engine apart... Is there a relatively easy way to tell? It was suggested that taking a rocker cover off would reveal a stamping that says '302'... Just looking for something definitive before I start tearing things apart chasing my tail.

R.R.
 
#16 ·
Going all the way back to the OP question see the picture I've included sometimes its hard to tell casting marks and what not when under a car. from what you posted I'd say this is what you are seeing and it is in fact a 65-66 vintage 289. what you are calling an is a leading on the casting number and is on most blocks the next symbol is actually the screw head where the casting identifier was attached to the mold.

I'm fairly sure you can use the standard 65-66 balancer for your application
 

Attachments

#18 ·
... Hi Ivy, Sorry for not being clear. When I said 'they' I meant those who installed a rebuilt engine in this car 20 years ago. (It is not the original motor - it was swapped). From the feedback I've got so far, the block numbers (pic) I provided are from a 1980 bock, making the block from a 302 as you've indicated as well. I was trying to ascertain whether or not the people who rebuilt this engine used 302 parts or 289 parts to make it what it is now. From what other feedback I've gotten so far, it sounds like there's a stamping under the valve cover that will answer that, so no need to order a book online & wait a week for it - I'll pull the valve cover on the weekend & all will be revealed... :)

Thanks a bunch!

R.R.
 
#19 ·
... Why did I think that.. Why did I think that??

I pulled the d.s. valve cover today... No stamping that says 289, 302... I found 2 stampings - one looks like OG18 (upside down & another that is a circle with numbers 1-3-5-7-9... Yeah... that clears it RIGHT up... :(

Of course googling only serves up everything except what you're asking for.

Mystery continues...
 

Attachments

#20 ·
The numbers in a circle are some kind of a foundry stamp telling something like when that part was cast. Exactly what it means is not entirely understood. The other one I think is a date code of 0G18: 18 July 1970? They often cast a year where yours has a T, i.e. '66'. Other times that spot had just the last letter of the part number for the head which would not be a T (last letters didn't normally go that high). Ford changed exactly what numbers and letters were cast fairly often. And they didn't always get the casting marks correct. It was sort of an erector set where you put the correct letter/number in the slots in the mold with nothing to prevent getting it wrong. What look like screw heads at the ends of many of those numbers were just screws holding the digits in place. One of my intake manifolds has the cylinder numbers swapped incorrectly: 1, 3, 2, 4 as I recall.

However, the heads won't tell you whether its a 289 or 302. That is determined in the short block. And even if the block has a 302 cast in it doesn't mean that is what Ford made with it. Usually, but not always.
 
#23 ·
Hey Tony,

I looked at the whole head very closely - but only took pictures where I saw markings.

This engine was re-built & put into this car 20 years ago, so it could be anything. It is possible that it's a 302, but it is also possible that someone pulled a 289 engine for a rebuild & found a cracked block - replaced it with a 302 block but kept the rest of the 289 internals & stuffed it into this car. I have no reason to believe this engine is a factory built engine because the previous owner told me he had a rebuilt-engine put in the car. He didn't say I had the engine pulled, rebuilt & re-installed - otherwise this would still be a numbers matching car & I never would have been able to afford it. Given this is a rebuild, it all comes down to what the builders did. - which could be any number of things - hence, the mystery.

I closed the valve cover back up. Didn't pull the other side, but maybe I'll do that next weekend on the off-chance something jumps out at me.

R.R.
 
#24 ·
Your best bet for telling whether it's a 289 crank without tearing it down, would be to measure the stroke. Stick a dowel in one of the spark plug holes, and turn the crank till it's 'all the way out'. Mark it with a sharpie. Then turn it till it's 'all the way in', and mark it with a sharpie again. Measure between the two marks, and TADA, you find your stroke!

302's are about as common as sand on the beach, as far as engines go. 289s were not made nearly as long - though they were popular in their day. Chances are, you've got 302 goodies inside your engine. Is it good? Well, that's probably more a function of what heads, intake and cam you've got than which crank. If it doesn't use oil, has decent compression, and runs quiet, then sweet! You've got a smallblock Windsor. Have fun. Don't worry about it. =)
 
#25 ·
... Ya, I'm not stressing, but I'm figuring at some point I'll need to know for one reason or another. Rear main oil seal leaks, I can't crack the throttle without a significant hesitation, so it's not pristine by any stretch. Other than stroke I've gathered that firing order/timing should be the same... If I have to do the rear seal, are they the same, or is there a slight difference between them... If/when I go to sell it... What am I telling the buyer?

I'm just on a learning curve... All good.

:)

R.R.
 
#26 ·
I am not sure exactly what year they started to use the one-piece main seal, but it was around the time they started calling 'em "5.0" motors instead of "302", so early to mid 80s I think. The one piece seal requires different machining to fit, but if yours is a 70s motor or earlier you can bet it's two-piece. (I Googled this and discovered that it happened in late '82.) The two-piece seals work all right, but they're a little trickier to install, and just not quite as reliable as the later design.

Somewhere on the block itself, you should find a stamp that starts with a letter and a number. I'm sure you already know this, but the letter gives the decade, and the number the year. C= 60s, D= 70s, E= 80s. So for example, a C8---- number would indicate that your block was made in '68. D5 would be '75. Etc. Some castings didn't get updated, and used for years, so occasionally a small part might show a year that's earlier than the actual casting, but engine blocks are usually right as far as the actual year goes.

Hesitation is almost certainly either fuel or timing, and should be easily fixable if you get around to it.

Firing order on 289's and 302's was always 15426378, and the 5.0 HO motors (not low-po 5.0's!) was 13726548 (same as a 351 of any year).

If you're selling it, I would find that number and tell them "Oh, it's a mild 302". If he asks what year the engine is, at least you'll know! If you want to get really technical, you can hopefully figure out the year for the heads and intake too. That's stuff *I* would personally want to know about my engine, but not everyone is as nerdy as me either. ;)
 
#27 ·
Hi Grimbrand,

As I go through & touch these different things I try to document & understand what it is/what it means - part of the fun of having the car - not just wrenching on it or driving it. My block is from 1980 from the information I was able to get from people in the forum. It has been a great source of information - lots of knowledgeable people.

I very much appreciate that. :)

R.R.
 
#28 ·
If you're curious about the rest of your engine, here's some info on what is probably the biggest difference between all the Windsors: Heads.

Most 302/5.0 heads are kind of the same in terms of performance, with a few exceptions. In stock form, the early 60s heads had rather high compression (small combustion chamber) and small valves, but they're popular for people that want good 'stock' heads because when ported, they do well. The heads are very similar from '67 the way to the 80s, with just a few exceptions: the 289 Hi-Po got screw in studs to help prevent them from pulling out with higher valve spring pressures, and the '68 J-code 302 4V which had ittybitty 53cc chambers to deliver higher compression. Neither was particularly 'special' except for the noted differences.

In 86 (one year only), they got "high swirl" heads, which are universally regarded as bad. It was during the time that quench area and its effect on combustion efficiency and detonation prevention became known, but they didn't get this one quite right.

In '87, the E7TE heads were rolled out, and got used on everything for many years. Very very common heads. Ho hum performance, and not worth really spending any money on. If you really know your stuff, and spend many hours porting them, you might have something that flows slightly worse than a good set of stock junkyard GT40P heads. Maybe. But they work! And they're better than the high-swirl '86 heads. They're on par with the original 302-289 heads, but with a little less upgrade potential.

In the 90s, GT40 heads came out. Slightly better, offering better breathing than the E7s. Used on Cobras first, I think, along with 1.7 roller rockers.

In the late 90s, as the 5.0 was being phased out, they produced the GT40P head, which had significantly different intake and exhaust port shapes. The valves were slightly smaller, and yet they still outperformed even the GT40 heads by a large margin. They were used on Explorers and Mountaineers mostly, along with weak valvesprings and a low-lift very mild cam that peters out around 4000 RPMs - but still managed to produce power similar to that of the earlier 5.0 HO Mustang engines despite this deficiency.
 
#29 ·
... So based on what the casting numbers are indicating... 302 block from 1980... Is this a one or two piece rear main seal...? Mine is starting to leak worse & I'll soon have to deal with it. I can't leave it out on the driveway without sliding cardboard under it... Classy.

It's gonna be fun trying to do this on jack stands...

:crying:

R.R.
 
#30 ·
Since they went to the one-piece seal in late '82, you have a two-piece seal. Not super tricky, really, but you will probably have to loosen the main caps to slip one around behind the crankshaft. Make sure you face the lip inward. Also make sure that one side hangs out about 1/4" (with the other side 'down in the hole' to receive the other half of the seal sticking out), instead of mounting the seals flush with the block. The offset (so it's not 'even' with the crack between block and oilpan) will help ensure that oil doesn't have an easy path to sneak out and drip. This sounds more complicated than it is. If my explanation seems confusing, just google it, and you'll see a bazillion pics of it.


Doing this with the engine IN the car may be tricky. Not sure how you'll get the pan off, or tighten/loosen the main caps with engine in the car!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top