Need more low end torque! - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016 Thread Starter
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Need more low end torque!

I've posted here before. Here's my setup. It's a 68 coupe 3100 lbs with me in it, 306 with a stock bottom end except a windage tray\girdle a high vol pump and deep pan. The heads are 58cc AFR 185's fully ported and polished with full roller rockers. The cam is an older Comp Cams flat tappet hyd "Thumper"(TONS of overlap) absolutely no one home before 2700RPM although it sounds great. 5-7 in of Hg. Intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM with a 650 Holley DP. 10:1 compression. 1-5/8" Patriot mid length headers, 3" collectors. 2-1/2" full exhaust with an H pipe. Trans is a TCI Street Fighter with a TCI 3000 stall (loose). Rear is a 9" 4.11:1 and a locker. I run on 26" tall Mickey Thompson ET Streets.

No one home before 2600 RPM. Then at 3200 or so, LOOKOUT! Wont even leave rubber from a standing start. I am going to long tube headers. I've fooled around with the timing curve to bring the advance in sooner. 36 degrees total, all in by 2200 or so. Idles at 18. Made it more responsive, no knock though, a little harder to start. I know it's a little engine, but I want to get the most out of it. What do you guys suggest?

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016
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easiest way to more low end is longer intake runners.



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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016
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Get yourself a retard start module.

I have my timing locked at 32* total. On start ups I can select how much timing I want to pull out up to 15*. Once the car starts it automatically jumps to 32*

There are several models available but this is the one I use. MSD 8987. This is the least expensive one but it works and that's all that matters.

You may have to use that small shot to help you get off the line faster or put the car on a diet because you all ready using a 4:10 gear. Any more gear and the car will not be good for the street.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stang93mustang View Post
Get yourself a retard start module.

I have my timing locked at 32* total. On start ups I can select how much timing I want to pull out up to 15*. Once the car starts it automatically jumps to 32*

There are several models available but this is the one I use. MSD 8987. This is the least expensive one but it works and that's all that matters.

You may have to use that small shot to help you get off the line faster or put the car on a diet because you all ready using a 4:10 gear. Any more gear and the car will not be good for the street.
That controller requires an MSD ignition. It'd be cheaper to change the cam then to switch to an MSD setup right now. I'm changing to a hyd roller cam over the winter. The car already weighs 2900 without me and 3100 with me so it's already pretty light. I have a Nitrous express kit but wanted to finish tweeking before I go that rout. Thanks for the advice though. The timing retard will come in handy with the 347 build that's coming.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana W View Post
easiest way to more low end is longer intake runners.
Already using a Performer RPM with a 1" spacer. Air cleaner protrudes through the hood about 1/2" under the Cobra Jet scoop. I do have a 2" spacer. Hmmmmm.......
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016
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Btw......that same module will pull timing at WOT when you are spraying to what ever you set it to. (Great Feature)

Keep something like this in mind on next build for sure.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016
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mafraziersr,
Do yourself a huge favor and pull the timing cover and advance the cam 4 degrees. That will pickup the bottom end power you are looking for. Overall engine performance will improve too. It will still rev up as well.
Randy

I may not be a GT350 Member but I am a GT 350 owner , stay thirsty my friends
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt350HR View Post
mafraziersr,
Do yourself a huge favor and pull the timing cover and advance the cam 4 degrees. That will pickup the bottom end power you are looking for. Overall engine performance will improve too. It will still rev up as well.
Randy

Didn't think about......plus 1!
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016
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Should be worth a couple of tenths.

I may not be a GT350 Member but I am a GT 350 owner , stay thirsty my friends
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017 Thread Starter
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SOLVED!! Very low compression! Ran a compression test and SURPRISE, 105-110 PSI in each cylinder! Before you say "maybe the gauge was bad" I replaced the gauge with a calibrated gauge in the same range, same result! The engine has dished pistons. I didn't realize the impact the dished pistons would have. The engine is strong, but makes little torque, now I know why. The good news is that I've picked up an 89 5.0 roller with factory forged pistons!
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Juice it!

The question is not when's he gon' stop, but who is gonna stop him? ~ Super Soul
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-09-2018 Thread Starter
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OK. I did some more research and discovered that my low vacuum readings (< 10Hg) was due to a valve timing issue. I pulled the timing cover and discovered that the cam was installed with 8 degrees of advance! I reset the cam at 2 degrees and BAM! Low end torque baby! It'll burn rubber from a standing start until I lift with drag radials. It's never done that. March tune and test will tell all!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafraziersr View Post
OK. I did some more research and discovered that my low vacuum readings (< 10Hg) was due to a valve timing issue. I pulled the timing cover and discovered that the cam was installed with 8 degrees of advance! I reset the cam at 2 degrees and BAM! Low end torque baby! It'll burn rubber from a standing start until I lift with drag radials. It's never done that. March tune and test will tell all!
You mentioned in the original post that your heads are port and polished, were they also milled? Do you know the degrees of intake/exhaust duration at 0.050-inch valve lift? What about the degree lobe separation angle?

Have you put the car on the dyno to see where the curve is happening?

Steve

2013 Sterling Grey GT premium convertible
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 02-15-2018 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cygnus View Post
You mentioned in the original post that your heads are port and polished, were they also milled? Do you know the degrees of intake/exhaust duration at 0.050-inch valve lift? What about the degree lobe separation angle?

Have you put the car on the dyno to see where the curve is happening?
Heads were not milled. I don't know much about the cam. It was in the engine when I bought the car. Everything else was Comp Cams so I assumed it was a "Thumper" because of its Lumpy nature. No dyno. I tuned the engine with a vacuum gauge, timing light and by reading the plugs. Butt dyno says it's real strong.
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Have you considered swapping your rear gear to a 4.56? Easy and cheap way of getting more torque


2014 Mustang 3.7L, bbk Long tube Headers, bbk catless x-pipe, no muffler, bbk 73mm throttle body, 4.10 rear gear, spec stage 3 clutch, spec aluminium flywheel, viking double adjustable rear shocks, bmr lower and upper control arms with relocation brackets, airaid cai, jlt oil catch can, sct x4 tuner, zex nitrous 100hp shot wet kit, n2mb wot box, mgw shifter, stock GT rear springs and eibach sportline front springs, gutted interior, 29.5/10.5/15 m/t ET drag
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