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Originally Posted by blkandgud View Post
To be fair, when the 05's came out vs the 04's, there wasn't a huge performance gap either in those years. Maybe a few tenth's of a second or so. I think you're right though, with the Camaro and Challenger out now, people were expecting this to blow the doors off everything, especially as how well the 11+ GT did.

I think the biggest disappointment is Mustang fans overhyping the performance numbers itself. I went into it knowing the performance would be the same and I was right, so I don't feel too let down in that aspect very much.
I think people have gotten used to expecting 10% power increases like we've beein seeing over the last 15 years....

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I think people have gotten used to expecting 10% power increases like we've beein seeing over the last 15 years....

I didn't. We already had a 420 HP engine in 2014 and the Boss was rated at 440. I was expecting 430-440 HP and we got exactly that. People are kidding themselves if they thought they'd get 450+ from the GT alone. I still don't expect a number close to 450+ anytime soon, honestly, except for the special editions. Besides 2011, we've always gotten marginal increases for the GT. Nothing super drastic. The biggest was 260-300 from 2004-05. Even 09-10 was only 15 hp.

What I wasn't expecting, however, was the weight. Considering all the rumors of the 200-300lbs diet.


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I think it's only normal that when the latest and greatest performance car comes out, you expect it to leave the old model in the dust. By and large, this is essentially what happened with successive generations of mustang. The problem with the "few minor mods" approach is that you can do the same thing with the previous gen car as well. Which, frankly, I think is awesome. I'm not enamored with the new mustang and it's good to know that at least acceleration wise, it's going to be drivers race. But I can see people who plan on dumping a bunch of cash on the new car to be underwhelmed.

People at ford were also saying that the new mustang would be lighter and smaller than the previous car. Didn't happen. So yeah, I don't really put a lot of credence into manufacturer claims. I'll wait to see the results of more independent organizations before I agree with you.
Don't get me wrong, I owned a 13' and loved it! But it definitely had it's weak areas, which I think Ford did a good job of addressing for the most part. And I understand next gen is expected to be faster than the last. And saying that this gen isn't faster than the last isn't 100% true anyway, depends on if we're talking about in a straight line or on a track/real road situation. You have to remember that when the 2010 came out it was the new body style but still had the 4.6L in it..it wasn't any better than the 09 performance-wise.but I would agree with you, I want to wait until more people test the car before I believe any straight line or track numbers.

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^^^ That's what I'm saying too. 435 hp is still not slow at all. Especially if this will be an easily moddible car. You have a car that's has 2011-14 power + great handling and suspension. What's not to like?

ok ok, looks but those are subjective.

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Don't get me wrong, I owned a 13' and loved it! But it definitely had it's weak areas, which I think Ford did a good job of addressing for the most part.
From what I've read, I completely agree with you. It's now a fully modern car with a modern ride. If I had my way, I'd find a way to transplant the front and rear suspension from a '15 GT PP car into my '12 GT. That would be perfect---that and adding the recaros and torsen diff! I wish I had waited a year to get a '13 because my only legit complaint would be the ride.

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And I understand next gen is expected to be faster than the last. And saying that this gen isn't faster than the last isn't 100% true anyway, depends on if we're talking about in a straight line or on a track/real road situation. You have to remember that when the 2010 came out it was the new body style but still had the 4.6L in it..it wasn't any better than the 09 performance-wise.but I would agree with you, I want to wait until more people test the car before I believe any straight line or track numbers.
I don't agree with your performance conclusions though--at least right now. All of the reviews I've seen of the '15 GT put both acceleration, handling (slalom/lateral acceleration), and braking within a pube hair of the old car. Basically, within the realm of driver error in the real world. I can't wait to read next year's C&D lightning lap issue to see how the new car compares with the last GT and the Boss.

Of course an even better test would be if some publication could get their hands on a '14 GT+PP and a '15 GT+PP to test them in a variety of performance areas. According to MT, Ford seems to have left a lot on the table with the '15 GT when it comes to handling, which is pretty disappointing, IMO. Then again, if you don't track the car, does it really matter?
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Don't forget that 2010 to 2011 was a nearly 100 hp increase. 435 hp is a great number and it'll surely creep upward.

I would love to see a track test comparison of the 2013 GT or Boss 302 against the 2015 GT.
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Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
Don't forget that 2010 to 2011 was a nearly 100 hp increase. 435 hp is a great number and it'll surely creep upward.

I would love to see a track test comparison of the 2013 GT or Boss 302 against the 2015 GT.
I am sure you will when C&D adds it to their "Hot Lap" list from VIR.
Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver

Chart...
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...to-2012-page-8

However, the new weight may make the results "less then impressive."

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It had to gain some weight with the independent rear; there's just no other way unless they drove the cost way up with more lightweight materials. I feel it's a small price to pay.

The other day my wife took her X3 in to the dealer for a service, and they lent us a 328i sedan for a few days while they ordered a part. I must say, it is a complete revelation as far as handling goes compared to my 2013 5.0, which as far as I was concerned was already a good-handling car. I found myself falling in love with a car that had just over half the hp of my 5.0. From what I understand, Ford looked to some of the European marques as a benchmark for the Mustang's handling. I feel like if it comes with a slight weight penalty, so be it. But it will be nice if once we're in a few years they bump the power up closer to 500 . . . that'll git'er done!

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Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
I am sure you will when C&D adds it to their "Hot Lap" list from VIR.
Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver

Chart...
Lightning Lap 2012 - - Car and Driver

However, the new weight may make the results "less then impressive."
That's what I'm hoping for. I don't really care where it falls or how impressive it ends up being. I'd just like to see where it ends up because one of the stated objectives was to beat a Boss 302 around the track. If it does, great. If it doesn't, that's great too.
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The Mustang could shrink and still maintain decent interior space. It's only 3 inches shorter than a new Accord Sedan! The answer is better/smarter packaging. Aluminum and high strength steel in addition to smaller exterior demensions are the answer.

^^ Exactly. I wish they had skipped the extra 1" of rear seat legroom, chopped 3" off the rear, and at least kept the weight the same, net of all the suspension improvements. People don't take 4 adults, or pack it up for a week-long camping trip. Plus the rear seat still folds down. Appearance would have been better too, IMHO.


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Man, I'm just going to be perfectly blunt... If you all didn't care about personal cosmetics of the car, You'd all be driving SN-95s with either an Aluminum Block 2v or a 3v swap or a generation stang before that. Yet, you all chose the heavier 2nd Gen S197 because there was a magical 400hp engine inside. I can live with people saying they just don't like the looks of the car, but I can't live with people crying about the weight gain when obviously appearances were the main factor in the purchase.

Is what it is.. I can't change people's opinions..
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If there was a magical 400 HP motor in the SN-95 (terminator excluded) you're right, I'd be driving one. Might still get a Termi one day anyway.... Count me in as a bit disappointed with the weight gain vs HP bump. Like others have said, the car could have been scaled down here and there to lose weight. Personally, I won't bite till the flat plane 500HP 5.2(?) is available. Looks are truly subjective.

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If there was a magical 400 HP motor in the SN-95 (terminator excluded) you're right, I'd be driving one. Might still get a Termi one day anyway.... Count me in as a bit disappointed with the weight gain vs HP bump. Like others have said, the car could have been scaled down here and there to lose weight. Personally, I won't bite till the flat plane 500HP 5.2(?) is available. Looks are truly subjective.
Dude, you could have swapped a coyote into a sn95 or fox and would have been faster. You could have built, forged, and boosted a 1st gen s197 or any previous model mustang a..you would have came out lighter and faster... but you chose to go heavy with the 11+ gt... am I the only one who finds it laughable you all are complaining?

I guess they should have scaled down the s197 too right? Can't believe you people are so up in arms over what 86lbs?
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Dude, you could have swapped a coyote into a sn95 or fox and would have been faster. You could have built, forged, and boosted a 1st gen s197 or any previous model mustang a..you would have came out lighter and faster... but you chose to go heavy with the 11+ gt... am I the only one who finds it laughable you all are complaining?

I guess they should have scaled down the s197 too right? Can't believe you people are so up in arms over what 86lbs?

I don't care so much with the weight (the z28 is a porker, but handles amazingly well). But I think it's funny that you think the SN95 is worth mentioning here. Who wants a car that rides like an oxcart, a fisher price interior, and perhaps most importantly, a 20 yo swiss cheese chassis?

Not all of us like mustangs for the their straightline speed. I like road course work and I'd take an s197+ all day long. Once you add up all the necessary bracing, you're sn95 ain't that light.
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I don't care so much with the weight (the z28 is a porker, but handles amazingly well). But I think it's funny that you think the SN95 is worth mentioning here. Who wants a car that rides like an oxcart, a fisher price interior, and perhaps most importantly, a 20 yo swiss cheese chassis?

Not all of us like mustangs for the their straightline speed. I like road course work and I'd take an s197+ all day long. Once you add up all the necessary bracing, you're sn95 ain't that light.

To be fair, the S197, especially the early 05-09, rode like oxcarts too and also had a fisher price interior...The interior didn't get semi-decent until 2010.


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