Visual Comparo: '69 Mach vs S197 vs S550 - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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Originally Posted by calspcl View Post
It does not look like a Fusion, but looks way better than a fat Challenger
It actually looks a lot like a Fusion, and "a lot like" part of the "Ford family." The Charger looks "a lot" like the 1971 Charger. Of course, looks are "in the eye of the beholder"

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I won't disagree that it has a strong resemblance with the Fusion. But I think the Fusion is a great looking car too.

"Family resemblances" seem to be an increasingly common theme throughout the industry. Similar to the packaging and grouping of options that is being discussed in another thread.

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Ok everyone, chill out......no need to be getting all personal over this.

Blazin72 asked a perfectly valid question when he asks "What exactly is a Mustang supposed to look like?" I'm just not sure he's asking the right one, and I feel that is because the less eloquent among us keep saying that the S550 doesn't "look like a Mustang" as a reason for disliking it.

I believe the question should really be "Just what is a Mustang not supposed to look like?"

Now, I have gone on record as not really feeling the new Mustang yet, but I have yet to see one in person. I really won't be able to say for sure one way or the other until I can see it, touch it, drive it (etc).

The one concern that I have is not so much that "it doesn't look like a Mustang" its more that it looks like the other vehicles in Ford's 2015 line up. The beauty of the Mustang, at least for me, has always been that it separated itself from the rest of the available cars in each years lineup.

I did state in another thread that really the only other era of Mustang that would have had a possible identity crisis was the Mustang II era, as some might have mistaken it for a Pinto if viewed from the wrong angle, and even that would be remote. I guess I should have added that an argument could be made for the 87-93 Mustangs with the aero look up front which was prevalent across the Ford line up (the Taurus comes to mind) but I can't see anyone mistaking a 88 Taurus for an 88 GT.

Now we have the S550 Mustang, and in my zeal to want to see a new one in person I mistook a Fusion for one the other day. Granted, when I made the mistake I could only see about half of the right front wheel forward to the nose, at an angle, from about a block away. When I got closer and my view of the whole car was unobstructed, I ended up doing a facepalm when I realized my mistake.

As for whether one likes the car or not, well everyone is entitled to post their opinion either way. Some love it, some hate it, and some just aren't sure what to make of it just yet.

I only need to back 2 years on the 2011+ Talk forum and see just how many people howled with displeasure about the 2013 refresh.

I only need to back a couple of years before that to see how many people though that the 2010 refresh was "downright ugly".

Funny how it all works out, but this forum is absolutely flooded with pictures of members later year S197's of all flavors. I have a feeling, in the end, that we'll have the same situation with the s550's, too.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by slorydn1 View Post
Blazin72 asked a perfectly valid question when he asks "What exactly is a Mustang supposed to look like?" I'm just not sure he's asking the right one, and I feel that is because the less eloquent among us keep saying that the S550 doesn't "look like a Mustang" as a reason for disliking it.
I believe the question should really be "Just what is a Mustang not supposed to look like?"
It's meant as a rhetorical question.

The reason why I continue to ask that question the way that I do is exactly because of the people that come back and say that "This part looks like this car and that part looks like that car" It's obvious that plenty of people have an idea of what it shouldn't look like. So... what should it look like then? Very few people seem to have an answer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
It's meant as a rhetorical question.
I understood that from the beginning.....however:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
So... what should it look like then? Very few people seem to have an answer.
Even though your question is rhetorical people are still going to try to answer it, even by not answering it directly, and that's probably because there is no true right answer. I know that I don't have one for you.

And yes, you're right, people seem to be focusing in on this or that part of the car that looks too much like another car. I am among that group. I always felt that a Mustang should leave no room for doubt, that when one sees it from any angle that one can only come to one conclusion: That its a Mustang.

There seems to be 3 schools of thought:

1) Ford didn't go far enough: The new design looks too much like the old one. Given a clean sheet of paper Ford should have tried to make a complete departure from the retro look.

2) Ford went too far: The new design needs to look more like the old one.

3) Ford nailed it with a mix of retro and something new.



I could be wrong, but it seems that most of the complaining is coming from the crowd in school #2.

Some of that may come from jealousy, or a dislike of change. I know that when my little brother who had a beautiful red 2006 Mustang GT saw my wife's 2012 the first time he exclaimed "wow, that rear end is ugly!" That was a common complaint of the 2005-2009 crowd about the 2010-2012's.

Then those of us 2010-2012 owners saw the 2013 front end and the first thing out of our mouths was "Man that catfish snout is fugly" (never mind that it looked almost exactly like the GT-500 that we all drooled over the year before!!).

Heck I even posted once that I didn't like the "gaping holes in the hood" when referencing the cooling vents on the 2013. I'd link to the post but it got deleted when someone who didn't even have a Mustang decided to start a urination competition about the 2012-vs-2013 and which was better and it got a little out of hand after he called me a liar (I seem to remember something about telling him to perform an anatomically impossible act on himself, LOL).

The fact of the matter is that I came around and I love looking at my 2014 in the security camera while I am sitting here at work.

Yeah, I know, I keep going on and on about this. I thought I was backing you up on this one and I guess in someways I did, and in someways I didn't, and I apologize for that. Blame it on the fact that I am at work and keep getting interrupted mid thought.

I think that everyone should just chill out about the whole thing and make up their minds one way or the other when they actually get to see, touch and drive one.


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Slowrydn,

I think you did a very good job at backing up my point. And with a lot more detail too.

You're right that there really is no true answer as to what it should look like and the best answer is probably a generic one. It's really just Fords version of a car with a long hood, short trunk, front engine, rear drive, two door, four seat, sporty or performance oriented coupe or convertible. That's it and it leaves everything wide open to interpretation. For GM it's the Camaro, Chrysler it's the Challenger and a large number of great looking European cars follow that formula as well. So... at some point it's bound to have some similar appearances to those other cars.

I don't necessarily think it should have to bear a strong resemblance (or any) to the outgoing car. From 93 to 94 the cars looked nothing like each other and from 04 to 05 they looked nothing like each other. Yet all of them generally sold well. In this case Ford did a good job of trying to carry over the overall general shape and proportions of the old car while not making it look like just an evolution of it. It is different and time will tell how well it does.

I think our society quite often tends to be stuck in the past and generally unwilling to move on from what it knows and is comfortable with. Anything outside of that is just wrong and unacceptable to people.
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Quote:
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I think our society quite often tends to be stuck in the past and generally unwilling to move on from what it knows and is comfortable with. Anything outside of that is just wrong and unacceptable to people.
Well, I think a lot of "brand managers" would disagree with you. Going back to the 60's, Ford/Mustang - Dodge/Challenger - and Chevrolet Camaro - Pontiac Firebird "brand managers" have fought for the biggest share of "the best looking - best technology pony car market." Along the way Dodge and Chevrolet/Pontiac "dropped out" of the "pony car" market and the Mustang took a real drop in market numbers - even though it was the only survivor. The return of the Camaro and Challenger have certainly cut into the Mustang sales numbers. While Dodge and Chevrolet seem to have "gone all in" with new car technology - interior design - performance technology - Ford seems to have relegated the Mustang to "just another Ford" status. I hope they do well in sales - especially Europe. But I'm not sure that the new Mustang will be very successful in the US "pony car" market. We will understand the performance - technical and economic - in the next few months and years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Well, I think a lot of "brand managers" would disagree with you. Going back to the 60's, Ford/Mustang - Dodge/Challenger - and Chevrolet Camaro - Pontiac Firebird "brand managers" have fought for the biggest share of "the best looking - best technology pony car market." Along the way Dodge and Chevrolet/Pontiac "dropped out" of the "pony car" market and the Mustang took a real drop in market numbers - even though it was the only survivor. The return of the Camaro and Challenger have certainly cut into the Mustang sales numbers. While Dodge and Chevrolet seem to have "gone all in" with new car technology - interior design - performance technology - Ford seems to have relegated the Mustang to "just another Ford" status. I hope they do well in sales - especially Europe. But I'm not sure that the new Mustang will be very successful in the US "pony car" market. We will understand the performance - technical and economic - in the next few months and years.
While there is still a good market for this type of car and there will probably always be a demand for it this is a totally different sales environment than it was in the 60s, 70s and even into the early 2000s and I think my previous statement still does apply. Times change but I think a lot of people don't want to change with it.

You may want to double check your thoughts on sales numbers.

Mustang sales stayed pretty consistent in the ~120,000-~150,000 range for all but a few years between the early 1980s until the late 2000s. From 2008 on is the first time yearly sales have stayed well below 100,000 for an extended period of time. That also happened to be the time that the economy tanked as well as the reintroduction of the Challenger and Camaro.

As much as I think the 2010-2014 is the best looking Mustang Ford has put out in a very long time I can't deny that it's time for something different.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
While there is still a good market for this type of car and there will probably always be a demand for it this is a totally different sales environment than it was in the 60s, 70s and even into the early 2000s and I think my previous statement still does apply. Times change but I think a lot of people don't want to change with it.

You may want to double check your thoughts on sales numbers.

Mustang sales stayed pretty consistent in the ~120,000-~150,000 range for all but a few years between the early 1980s until the late 2000s. From 2008 on is the first time yearly sales have stayed well below 100,000 for an extended period of time. That also happened to be the time that the economy tanked as well as the reintroduction of the Challenger and Camaro.

As much as I think the 2010-2014 is the best looking Mustang Ford has put out in a very long time I can't deny that it's time for something different.

You also have to factor in price and the market. Back then, the Mustang was much cheaper but then again, it was also not as well put together as the newer cars are today. I think the Mustang will do okay, but it's no longer a 22K bargain like it used to be for a GT.

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While there is still a good market for this type of car and there will probably always be a demand for it this is a totally different sales environment than it was in the 60s, 70s and even into the early 2000s and I think my previous statement still does apply. Times change but I think a lot of people don't want to change with it.
My point was that, together, Camaro and Challenger had 0% of the "pony car market" in 2008 and in 2013 had about 65% of the "pony car" market. Both have worked hard to build a car with great technology, high performance and, in many people's view, image/looks. Ford responding with a "cousin" of the Fusion, and a close member of the "Ford Family," doesn't seem like a move to "distinguish" the "Mustang brand." Only time will tell.
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My point was that, together, Camaro and Challenger had 0% of the "pony car market" in 2008 and in 2013 had about 65% of the "pony car" market.
That's kinda where I was going too in my last post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Both have worked hard to build a car with great technology, high performance and, in many people's view, image/looks. Ford responding with a "cousin" of the Fusion, and a close member of the "Ford Family," doesn't seem like a move to "distinguish" the "Mustang brand." Only time will tell.
I understand what you're saying but I think that family resemblance thing is only going to continue to become more common.
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What if the Fusion didn't exist in its current form? The only reason I ask this is because I'm curious if people have an issue with the design itself, or simply the fact that the front end shares some similarities with the Fusion.

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Quote:
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What if the Fusion didn't exist in its current form? The only reason I ask this is because I'm curious if people have an issue with the design itself, or simply the fact that the front end shares some similarities with the Fusion.
I still would think the front end is kind of ugly, the side is fine, the back is great besides the ugly valance. The front doesn't look just like a fusion it pertrudes just like a benz, reminds me of a Mazda/Mitsubishi a bit too....when you see a s197 what do you see? I've never seen another car and thought oh that's a mustang! Oh wait it's not...

The front from some angles does look good, but I mean you see it from all angles especially if you buy it. I think they pulled a Microsoft. People who want a pony car go get a used 11-14, those who want a sporty car here's the s550. They are clearly aiming at other markets, that's why people with pony/muscle cars ghave disdain. This design (front of the car) isn't aimed at us

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I haven't posted much lately, but here are my thoughts. I've owned eight Mustangs over the past 25 years or so. When Ford went to the Aero look in 1987, Mustang owners were beside themselves. Then the performance at the time overtook the look and things were good again. When that platform was dumped for the next generation Mustang the thought was that these cars did not look like Mustsngs. The Retro look in 2005 was not a big hit with some either.

I owned a 1973 Challenger also. The new ones are a faint resemblance to the originals. The Hell Cat might be a good car (maybe) but it cost more than my GT 500 and slower except the quarter mile.

The Corvete guys aren't exactly excited with the look of the new Vette either. The rear does not look like the previous Corvettes with the new light configuration. The Ferrari lights that GM used on the Corvettes and The 70-73 Camaros are gone.

The bottom line is that all manufacturers have changed things. Some like it, and some don't. You can't argue with the performance and safety on most of the new cars along with exceptional fuel mileage on high horsepower cars. What's not to like?

The question to ask yourself is this: is it important to have a pretty car, a great performance car or both. Three different types of cars with different price tags, as well as different targeted buyers.

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Love all 3. Hope to have a '70'someday.

We all have filters in what we see. In my case I went from 'oh no' based only on online pictures, to 'not bad' after my first in-person sighting at an autoshow, to 'I gotta have one' after seeing more at the 50th.

Now when I see the SAME pictures online, I see the car in those pictures very differently.

I think in-person viewings will change many minds. Then there will be test drives. More positives will pour in.

I no longer confuse this car with a Fusion. It's Mustang all the way. It's not Challenger-distinctive, but that's ok. Mustang is moving on to its next 50 years.

But..... don't get me started on its weight...


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