Motor Trend--15 Camaro 1LE PP vs 15 Mustang GT PP--Randy Pobst - Page 2 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte Stang View Post
It's an interesting world when 435hp isn't good enough......
It was already interesting when 420hp was not enough.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgoins View Post
I thought the last comparison would have been a wake up call.
2013 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE vs. 2013 Ford Mustang GT Track Pack - Motor Trend
Ford had ample time to prepare a GT that could take on the 1LE for roughly the same price
^^^^ This The 1LE was the bar and missing that bar is a huge failure IMO. I don't get how Ford can break out with a all new ride that can't equal or best ts main competition, which is a car in its last production year run. It only gets worse in 2016 unless Ford has a 2010 - 2011 trick up their sleeve.


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Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
I'm dissatisfied with 435 hp, and it ended up being rated at exactly what I thought it would be rated, but with the changes that were made to the engine there surely has to be more on the table.
I just read my post again and realized I left the word "not" out between "I'm" and "dissatisfied".

It should have read: "I'm NOT dissatisfied with 435 hp".

Oops.
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Originally Posted by G-Mann View Post
^^^^ This The 1LE was the bar and missing that bar is a huge failure IMO.
The Boss 302 was the bar Ford was shooting for, not the 1LE. That's been stated a number of times.

The new car picks up just about where the Boss left off AND it offers all of the creature comforts that so many people want and the Boss didn't have, and then some.

The 1LE was a response to the Boss 302, not to the GT. The question to ask is what comes after the GT? We know of the GT350 rumor. But what else could there be?

There was no failure here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
The Boss 302 was the bar Ford was shooting for, not the 1LE. That's been stated a number of times.

The new car picks up just about where the Boss left off AND it offers all of the creature comforts that so many people want and the Boss didn't have, and then some.

The 1LE was a response to the Boss 302, not to the GT. The question to ask is what comes after the GT? We know of the GT350 rumor. But what else could there be?

There was no failure here.
The base price of the 1LE is $38k. Do think the GT350 is going to come close to that?

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Originally Posted by Bgoins View Post
The base price of the 1LE is $38k. Do think the GT350 is going to come close to that?
Absolutely not, but that wasn't the comparison I was getting at.

What other models could there be? Aside from a GT350...
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No matter what, there`s always going to be something faster out there. I sat in a `15 Camaro yesterday, (not a 1LE), & they are still uncomfortable & hard to see out of. I also sat in a `15 Challenger R/T with the track pack (not scat pack) in the Sublime green color, & I have to admit that it was a very nice car with a sticker of only 34k. It was not nice enough for me to get rid of my `13 GT though.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazin72 View Post
Absolutely not, but that wasn't the comparison I was getting at.

What other models could there be? Aside from a GT350...
My point is that the Camarao is the Mustangs main competitor and always has been. I know it's a "world car" now and everything but these cars are always compared with each other. Pony Car Wars. So if the Camaro can create an options package such as the 1LE for $38k that wipes cars all over the road course then Ford should also be able to produce an effective options package for a similar price that is at least as good on the track. That's all. Keep in mind the 1LE is an options package not a different model. Most likely the GT350 will be compared with the Z28 which just won the MT Best Drivers Car Comparison. Chevy is on its A game with the Camaro lately and Ford has a little catching up to do.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgoins View Post
Swing and a miss for the Mustang. Well thanks Ford for not making me want to sell my '13 for a '15.
That's how you saw it?

Really? Don't get me wrong because I'm not trading my '14 for the new car either. Race Track optimization for the road course isn't exactly my priority......but....for the person who wants to do that the new car is FAR MORE capable on the track than your '13 or my '14.

What I saw and heard was this:

The new Mustang is leaps and bounds better than my car on the track. It got beaten by a better prepared Camaro. that benefits from a lot of the track time work that taught Chevy engineers what works and what doesn't during testing and development of the ZL1 and the Z/28.

Ford's IRS is BRAND NEW to the model. It's going to take a while to catch up and even so.........Ford will have to prioritize the mission (that's no sure thing).....Ford put a pretty half hearted effort into the '13 BOSS......no reason to believe that they go to the limit to beat Chevy with this car yet either.

That said........ I didn't see anything here that couldn't be fixed QUICKLY by a motivated owner of the '15 Mustang with a relatively simple addition of better tires, springs and shocks and sway bars. Bolt on easy pieces for a car already set up with IRS.

If I had to match the 1LE Camaro starting with your car or mine........we'd be looking at a far bigger challenge and we'd probably still lose anyway.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediDave View Post
For those reasons, among others, Ford doesn't offer marketable reasons for Mustang enthusiasts who own 11-14 Mustangs to trade up, especially the Shelby owners.
Like yourself and others, I find the '15 mustang's performance to be rather disappointing because like any good car enthusiast, it's fun to argue and debate numbers. However, I find a lot wrong with the statement I pulled out of your previous post.

First off, the mustang GT is still a fast car. It's equally as fast (and maybe a touch faster, IIRC from the video in some areas) in a straight line than the 1LE. Secondly, for 90% of mustang purchases, the car will be driven exclusively on the street. Ford has made HUGE progress on the street manners of the new mustang. I know Lago didn't seem to notice much of a difference between this car and the previous one, but every other review I read of the car mentions how much nicer the new car is to drive on the street than the previous one. This is what will sell the new mustang to more people. And it's a very marketable attribute, regardless of whether you're a long time mustang fan or not.

And then you talk about Shelby owners and that they wouldn't want to trade their cars in for a new mustang. Why would they? Who would trade in 500+ hp (depending on year) for a 435 hp V8? I wouldn't. And frankly, Ford isn't looking for Shelby owners to trade in their GT500 for a plebian GT. If you're thinking that this comparo bodes poorly for the next GT500 (or whatever Ford comes out with above the GT), I think you're also wrong. Although the GT wasn't as fast as the 1LE, Randy was gushing about how stiff the chassis is in the mustang. This suggests to me that a potent handler lurks within the s550 chassis, it just needs to get the correct tuning details worked out.

Let's not forget that when the current Camaro SS came out it was soundly trounced by the '11 GT, which was an updated version of an old chassis. What we're seeing now is classic ford. The first version of a new mustang is a little underwhleming. Over time, Ford slowly turns up the wick to something awesome.

People are rushing out to buy a '15 and that's great, especially for Ford. And heck, I'm sure the aftermarket will solve a lot of the handling issues we're reading about. But if you want a factory Mustang that can really handle, you're best bet is to wait 2-3 years to see what Ford does to keep the mustang fresh and competitive. There's no point in Ford releasing everything all at once and having nothing for them to improve upon--the car would get stale pretty quickly. Right now, Ford is riding the hype associated with the release of every new mustang.

Things will absolutely get a lot more serious once the dust settles from the release of a "new mustang".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenv View Post
No matter what, there`s always going to be something faster out there. I sat in a `15 Camaro yesterday, (not a 1LE), & they are still uncomfortable & hard to see out of. I also sat in a `15 Challenger R/T with the track pack (not scat pack) in the Sublime green color, & I have to admit that it was a very nice car with a sticker of only 34k. It was not nice enough for me to get rid of my `13 GT though.
1st and foremost I will always be a Mustang Guy...period!! I have been since 1968 when I was in my 1st Mustang. There are no other cars out there (I mean all IMO) that gives me the pleasure of driving satisfaction as my Stang. I agree with you kenv...some cars are faster, handle better, better gas mileage (who cares about that one...LOL), has more prestige. I could care less!

A Mustang to me is unique does make my heart skip a beat a couple of times.

You are correct a Camaro makes me claustrophobic as you really can't see out very well and the Challenger is as big as a boat. Both do not give me any feeling like a Mustang does. I am thinking only Mustang Guys know what I am talking about!

Mustang Rock On!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kamakaz1961 View Post
1st and foremost I will always be a Mustang Guy...period!! I have been since 1968 when I was in my 1st Mustang. There are no other cars out there (I mean all IMO) that gives me the pleasure of driving satisfaction as my Stang. I agree with you kenv...some cars are faster, handle better, better gas mileage (who cares about that one...LOL), has more prestige. I could care less!

A Mustang to me is unique does make my heart skip a beat a couple of times.

You are correct a Camaro makes me claustrophobic as you really can't see out very well and the Challenger is as big as a boat. Both do not give me any feeling like a Mustang does. I am thinking only Mustang Guys know what I am talking about!

Mustang Rock On!!
Ford appreciates your "blind" enthusiasm And I do too, as a Ford stockholder. Unfortunately there needs to be a lot more people like you, per year, buying the Mustang Maybe Europe/Asia and the "Ecoboost 4Cyl" will find those buyers. Although about 2/3rds of the Mustangs sold are V6's, Ford needs the big V8 buyers to increase the overall product margin. If "fastest in the neighborhood" is your goal (Younger buyers), then the current performance isn't a real plus for sales.

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If you watch closely the '15 stang hangs with the 'maro right about to the last turn when the camaro's more refined suspension borrowed directly from the Z/28 and ZL1 just hugged the final turn at Willow Springs.

I am disappointed that Ford could not send a Mustang out of the stables that could beat a Camaro. But, one of the things I do appreciate is the statement, "it handles like a Mustang." I don't want a Cadillac suspension in a Pony car. I want a car that acknowledges the past and gives you a little bit of that unbridled excitement.

A spaceship that hugs the roads not giving a bit of under-steer is just boring. Lets face it I am never going to have a day at Willow Springs to enjoy my car. I must settle with a few MPH over on local twisties.

I am disappointed that Ford could not take the 'maro with the S550 but lets face it an S550 was never on my radar. I am still stinging over the company nose.

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Put those sticky gumball tires on the Mustang and it will be eating the Camaro's lunch. Yes you can blame Ford for cheapening out on the tires or you can curse Chevy when you have to change tires in 10k miles.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte Stang View Post
It's an interesting world when 435hp isn't good enough......
Right?!

I remember when I was a kid, drooling over the pages of Motor Trend and Car & Driver, the only cars that posted hp numbers of 400+ were supercars such as Lambo and Ferarri. Back then, the then new ZR1 Corvette put down like 330 hp and we all just bowed to it as if it were God. I remember reading that 1hp per cubic inch of displacement was pretty damn good, and if you can get there then you've really achieved something special.

Now, we roll our eyes and say we'll wait for the redesign or updates next year because 430 hp is bs, and low 12's in a bone stock ride that can also hold 0.98 G on a road course straight off the showroom floor just isn't enough.

We are so spoiled, lol.



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