Motor Trend--15 Camaro 1LE PP vs 15 Mustang GT PP--Randy Pobst - Page 3 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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Right?!

I remember when I was a kid, drooling over the pages of Motor Trend and Car & Driver, the only cars that posted hp numbers of 400+ were supercars such as Lambo and Ferarri. Back then, the then new ZR1 Corvette put down like 330 hp and we all just bowed to it as if it were God. I remember reading that 1hp per cubic inch of displacement was pretty damn good, and if you can get there then you've really achieved something special.

Now, we roll our eyes and say we'll wait for the redesign or updates next year because 430 hp is bs, and low 12's in a bone stock ride that can also hold 0.98 G on a road course straight off the showroom floor just isn't enough.

We are so spoiled, lol.
I think for most people, the power isn't the issue. Weight/size is the issue. The IRS being a let-down is the issue. The new Mustang being beat by an old Camaro on the track is the issue.

Ford had an opportunity, and they missed it.


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If KW Suspension is working on some coilovers for the 2015 Mustang, that might help keep that suspension wobble and control issue mentioned by Randy Pobst down. I swapped to KW V3's on my 2012 GT and it made a big difference. And, they adjust so you can stiffen them for track use. They didn't mention if the 1LE has the magneto-rheological suspension like the CTS-V. This article says the 1LE doesn't have that suspension, so stock for stock, it grips better unless the stock Mustang 2015 tires are mis-selected.

2013 Chevrolet Camaro 1LE First Drive - Motor Trend

What the 1LE doesn't get are two of the ZL1's most impressive magic tricks. One is the fancy and adjustable magnetorheological shock absorbers.

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They didn't mention if the 1LE has the magneto-rheological suspension like the CTS-V. This article says the 1LE doesn't have that suspension, so stock for stock, it grips better unless the stock Mustang 2015 tires are mis-selected.
That article is correct, it does not have them.
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New comparison test
Comparison: Camaro SS 1LE vs. Challenger R/T Scat Pack vs. Mustang GT

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interesting read...I feel like because they hate the added weight and looks (which are subjective anyway so they shouldn't really be part of the review IMO) so much it kinda clouded their review..gave it a very negative tone, which I think was what they were going for. They didn't spend much (if any) time on the other 2 cars bashing/praising the looks, I don't know why they had to do it for the stang. But regardless, The 1LE is close to 2k more MSRP than a GT premium w/PP for a reason: Bigger wheels and bigger/better tires. Not that it matters, because we're comparing stock to stock, but if the PP option was 1k more and came with the same tires..I think track reviews/results would be quite different. Also, its funny how in 2013 Motortrend described the the 1LE as the "Ford mustang boss 302 killer" And now they're comparing it to the GT lol. (yes I understand the 302 isn't around any longer but it was quite a bit more expensive than the GT PP). As far as the 0-60 times, I don't think it was quite fair because the Scat Pack was an auto.. + I've seen someone run a stock 15' GT PP at 12.6 but whatever, I still think the 15 is a great improvement. My only complaint about it thus far (just from reading/watching videos) is they stuck with the Pirellis

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Begoins:

Thank you for the link to the article; great read. Too bad the Mustang has such a weak intro, especially in an anniversary year. As the article states, as the Mustang is updated/improved things should get better, so Mustang fans should take heart. Nevertheless, as I've been stating since day one, taking the Fusion styling theme and attempting to morph it into the Mustang was a boneheaded move by Ford. The front end still isn't growing on me, and I think that from some angles it's down right homely. I truly hope that Mustang sales hit 100,000 in 2015, but my fear is that they'll be lucky to come in at 90,000, given the competition from Camaro and Challenger. Whoever approved the final front end styling for our Stang, in my humble opinion, should be fired or at least demoted to cadet!! Oh wait, J. Mays head of Ford Design, retired upon Mustang's introduction.....smart move, got out of Dodge while he had a chance!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dastefster View Post
interesting read...I feel like because they hate the added weight and looks (which are subjective anyway so they shouldn't really be part of the review IMO) so much it kinda clouded their review..gave it a very negative tone, which I think was what they were going for. They didn't spend much (if any) time on the other 2 cars bashing/praising the looks, I don't know why they had to do it for the stang. But regardless, The 1LE is close to 2k more MSRP than a GT premium w/PP for a reason: Bigger wheels and bigger/better tires. Not that it matters, because we're comparing stock to stock, but if the PP option was 1k more and came with the same tires..I think track reviews/results would be quite different. Also, its funny how in 2013 Motortrend described the the 1LE as the "Ford mustang boss 302 killer" And now they're comparing it to the GT lol. (yes I understand the 302 isn't around any longer but it was quite a bit more expensive than the GT PP). As far as the 0-60 times, I don't think it was quite fair because the Scat Pack was an auto.. + I've seen someone run a stock 15' GT PP at 12.6 but whatever, I still think the 15 is a great improvement. My only complaint about it thus far (just from reading/watching videos) is they stuck with the Pirellis
I imagine a review without subjective opinions would make for a fairly sterile read. By allowing multiple reviewers to offer their thoughts, however, certain opinions can be counteracted to provide a more balanced overall approach. In this case, the reviewers collectively disliked the the headlights - and I can't say I blame them.

Also, after watching the 1LE vs GTPP track video comparison, I would be more focused on upgrading the suspension in the new Mustang than the tires. I couldn't believe how much rolling and secondary motion I was seeing compared to the very planted Camaro. I was really hoping for more from Ford.
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Quote:
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Begoins:

Thank you for the link to the article; great read. Too bad the Mustang has such a weak intro, especially in an anniversary year. As the article states, as the Mustang is updated/improved things should get better, so Mustang fans should take heart. Nevertheless, as I've been stating since day one, taking the Fusion styling theme and attempting to morph it into the Mustang was a boneheaded move by Ford. The front end still isn't growing on me, and I think that from some angles it's down right homely. I truly hope that Mustang sales hit 100,000 in 2015, but my fear is that they'll be lucky to come in at 90,000, given the competition from Camaro and Challenger. Whoever approved the final front end styling for our Stang, in my humble opinion, should be fired or at least demoted to cadet!! Oh wait, J. Mays head of Ford Design, retired upon Mustang's introduction.....smart move, got out of Dodge while he had a chance!

Jedi D.
Agreed regarding the front end styling blunder. I certainly wouldn't have minded seeing a more modern interpretation of the '11-'14 front end, but to completely depart from that look was an unfortunate misstep.
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Agreed regarding the front end styling blunder. I certainly wouldn't have minded seeing a more modern interpretation of the '11-'14 front end, but to completely depart from that look was an unfortunate misstep.
^^^^^^ +1 I thought the key "styling comment" was - referring to the Mustang's looks - " It's somehow sort of anonymous. Weird, right?" I think that sums it up for many Mustang owners.

Comparison: Camaro SS 1LE vs. Challenger R/T Scat Pack vs. Mustang GT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc93 View Post
I imagine a review without subjective opinions would make for a fairly sterile read. By allowing multiple reviewers to offer their thoughts, however, certain opinions can be counteracted to provide a more balanced overall approach. In this case, the reviewers collectively disliked the the headlights - and I can't say I blame them.
While I appreciate the subjective comments it was Motor Trends subjective view that when they tested the '13 GT500 to the ZL1 that despite the Shelby smoking the Camaro in two out of three tests MT gave the win to the Camaro because in their opinion the Camaro was a better car and if you just gave it enough trips around Mazda's Speedway they were sure the brake fade on the GT500 would reduce the gap by enough for the ZL1 to take the lead.

You have to realize that MT are Camaro fanboys through and through and even when a Mustang beats the Camaro they hem and haw and make up reasons why the Camaro is still a better car. Objectivity, when it comes to MT writers is questionable at best. MT is like Playboy, you don't go there for the articles.

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While I appreciate the subjective comments it was Motor Trends subjective view that when they tested the '13 GT500 to the ZL1 that despite the Shelby smoking the Camaro in two out of three tests MT gave the win to the Camaro because in their opinion the Camaro was a better car and if you just gave it enough trips around Mazda's Speedway they were sure the brake fade on the GT500 would reduce the gap by enough for the ZL1 to take the lead.

You have to realize that MT are Camaro fanboys through and through and even when a Mustang beats the Camaro they hem and haw and make up reasons why the Camaro is still a better car. Objectivity, when it comes to MT writers is questionable at best. MT is like Playboy, you don't go there for the articles.
This article doesn't sound like it was written by Camaro fanboys. Also I'm pretty sure Randy Pobst would not be their main test driver if all he did was bash Mustangs.
2011 Ford Mustang GT vs 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS vs 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT8 Comparison - Motor Trend

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This article doesn't sound like it was written by Camaro fanboys. Also I'm pretty sure Randy Pobst would not be their main test driver if all he did was bash Mustangs.
2011 Ford Mustang GT vs 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS vs 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT8 Comparison - Motor Trend
I agree. Pobst was very positive on the Mustang when he drove the 2011 GT and the 2011 BMW M3 in road track comparisons.

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Quote:
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Agreed regarding the front end styling blunder. I certainly wouldn't have minded seeing a more modern interpretation of the '11-'14 front end, but to completely depart from that look was an unfortunate misstep.
I finally saw my 1st 2015 (black like my 2011 GT/CS) yesterday and the pics didn't lie to me (fugly Fusion), but that is my opinion so don't get offended.

They do look more modern if that's your thing though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgoins View Post
This article doesn't sound like it was written by Camaro fanboys. Also I'm pretty sure Randy Pobst would not be their main test driver if all he did was bash Mustangs.
2011 Ford Mustang GT vs 2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS vs 2010 Dodge Challenger SRT8 Comparison - Motor Trend
That was about the last time MT gave the 'stang a fair shake. I am talking about the writers, not Randy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
I agree. Pobst was very positive on the Mustang when he drove the 2011 GT and the 2011 BMW M3 in road track comparisons.
Again I am speaking writers not video and not their test driver. I should have been more clear in my original message.

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I honestly find these comparison tests a bit nonsense, mainly because how many people really take the cars (the 3 pony cars, not just the Mustangs). Probably 1 in every 500 pony car owners race them?

If you read the whole article, both the Challenger and Mustang were ages better than the Camaro for regular road driving and cruising. The Camaro is heavily critized here....

Then on the track the Mustang was difficult to drive, yet it was beat up by 0.2 seconds (24.7 vs 24.5 on the Camaro).

On the paper the 2015 "beats" the 2014 and previous Mustangs, yet the 2014s and previous were better than the Camaro? Just don´t get it.

It would be interesting to compare the 2014 vs the 2015 Mustangs in a real test not just figures.

To me Camaro and Mustangs are not competitors because people who like the Camaro won´t ever buy the Mustang and viceversa. (real competition is for sales in reality)

The Challenger on the other side... man this new Challenger really makes me think about cheating with the Mustang LOL.

I think having these 3 alternatives is awesome. Really passionate cars with tons of personality and great V8s.


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