Motor Trend--15 Camaro 1LE PP vs 15 Mustang GT PP--Randy Pobst - Page 4 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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Interesting read and Pobst review.

Ford left too much on the table and the car comes up short IMO. The Stang use to be the Best of Breed when it came to the pony cars and the camaro has held that title since 2013. I find it inexcusable for a all new Mustang not to best its old competition. It only gets worse when the new camaro launches in about a year from now.

Looks are subjective but I was never wowed by the looks, which really put more emphasis on the performance numbers. I agree with the article on the headlights and overhang. The Stang they have been showing for Sema, at least from the side view I saw had much better headlights.

IMO the S550 is a huge step in the right direction but comes up short.


Anybody see the Breenspeed video and the wheel hop they experienced... I was like Really, I buy a brand new car and have to turn around and muck with my suspension out of the gate, Like I did with my 2012 all over again. Come on Man.


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I can't help but notice the Mustang versus Camaro battle seems to revolve around street and track performance. The Mustang rated better on the street manners and brakes, more comfortable/better interior, where as the Camaro was better very marginally on the track. GM was smart to put wide wheels and tires and good shocks on the Camaro to beat the Mustang, by the slimmest of margins, on the track. Imagine if ford had done that with the Mustang! If I was going to buy a new Mustang, I would have no problem upgrading to wider wheels and tires and better suspension. You gotta love the pony wars, the improvements to our vehicles would have evolved at a much slower pace without them. Mustang is still the best looking pony car and I wouldn't be without one.


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Quote:
GM was smart to put wide wheels and tires and good shocks on the Camaro to beat the Mustang, by the slimmest of margins
Two seconds is not a slim margin.
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Two seconds is a change in tires away.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Ford appreciates your "blind" enthusiasm And I do too, as a Ford stockholder. Unfortunately there needs to be a lot more people like you, per year, buying the Mustang Maybe Europe/Asia and the "Ecoboost 4Cyl" will find those buyers. Although about 2/3rds of the Mustangs sold are V6's, Ford needs the big V8 buyers to increase the overall product margin. If "fastest in the neighborhood" is your goal (Younger buyers), then the current performance isn't a real plus for sales.
Maybe, but my car has 420HP, I don`t go to the track, so there is legally no place I can use that much power, let alone a car with 6-700HP. I can foresee a day probably in the not too distant future, where either the government, or the insurance companies (or both) will step in like in the `70s & once again put the kibosh on high horsepower american cars. Hope I`m wrong though.

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Thank you .............
Quote:
Originally Posted by 908ssp View Post
Two seconds is a change in tires away.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908ssp View Post
Two seconds is a change in tires away.
For a lot of people, the track (road course) performance isn't important at all - and that is fine. But if it does matter to you, then listening to Pobst gives you a real look at the performance differences - and it isn't just tires. Its the spring stiffness, the damper performance, the ABS performance and probably some tire performance. Pobst understands that getting those "two seconds," takes better overall car balance. Again, to most it doesn't matter. But getting it better isn't as trivial as a different set of tires. And, for most drivers, the difference would be much greater then 2 seconds. The things that Pobst can do - with a poorer handling car - is very different then the amateur track driver. So I suspect the Camaro will make a lot more people feel comfortable driving it hard in the "twisties."

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Last edited by Radioguy; 10-29-2014 at 11:10 AM.
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Take heart, fellow Mustang fans. They may have dropped the ball on the IRS, but thanks to Ford's foresight, we can now get a Mustang with an Ecoboost 4-banger. Let's see Chevy equal that!

We just have to understand that in place of a Camaro-killer, we now have a Prius-beater.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 908ssp View Post
Two seconds is a change in tires away.
Just skip down to the conclusion.

On the Chevrolet Camaro, Do The Tires Make The Car? - Motor Trend

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Not a surprise - to people that understand vehicle dynamics - but still a nice piece of analysis by MT...:

"Conclusion
From this test, we can conclude that the Z/28's advantage is not simply a better set of tires. Mounting the Z/28's wheels and tires to a Camaro 1LE did not allow the 1LE to meet or exceed the performance of the stock Z/28. In fact, in half of our tests, the 1LE fitted with Z/28 tires failed to outperform the Z/28 fitted with 1LE tires, much less the stock Z/28. Tires, then, are not the be-all, end-all of handling. They are part of the equation, and improving the tires can improve performance. However, the tire must also work with the suspension, the brakes, the steering, and the chassis. Handling is holistic, and many variables are involved. Spring rates, shock rates (both compression and rebound), anti-roll bar stiffness, bushing stiffness, suspension geometry, alignment, chassis stiffness, and more can all affect how well a car handles. While improving any one factor can increase performance, the system as a whole must be considered not only to more meaningfully improve performance, but also to retain or improve the driving experience. After all, does it matter how big the skidpad numbers are if the car is unpleasant to drive? The Camaro Z/28, then, is not just an expensive set of tires and a wing. It's what Chevrolet promised: a serious track car that's been modified from the ground up for better performance."

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I just feel like adding in that the 1LE is riding on the same suspension as the ZL1. Its basically a ZL1 with less power. Tires help in corning but they aren't going to make up 2 seconds in that comparison. Personally I track and daily drive my Mustang and while its awesome to have great handling on the track I do like having a good ride on a normal road. I have sat in a few Camaros though and still don't like the fact I can see crap out of them and I don't care for the interior.
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Quote:
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I just feel like adding in that the 1LE is riding on the same suspension as the ZL1. Its basically a ZL1 with less power. Tires help in corning but they aren't going to make up 2 seconds in that comparison. Personally I track and daily drive my Mustang and while its awesome to have great handling on the track I do like having a good ride on a normal road. I have sat in a few Camaros though and still don't like the fact I can see crap out of them and I don't care for the interior.
ZL1 has the Magnetic Ride Control suspension that is not on the 1LE

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Wanna end this "discussion" once and for all? Put the same size tires on an s550 and see what happens. Then we can talk dynamics. Changing tires back and forth from a 1le to a z28 is just short of stupid when you're trying to determine the chassis dynamics of a Ford. And yes, I get what they were doing. Barely relevant.

Edit- I'm not trying to defend Ford because I agree that they left too much on the table and too much weight on the car. The argument over which has the better chassis is dumb without a tires to tires comparison

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iasis View Post
I just feel like adding in that the 1LE is riding on the same suspension as the ZL1. Its basically a ZL1 with less power. Tires help in corning but they aren't going to make up 2 seconds in that comparison. Personally I track and daily drive my Mustang and while its awesome to have great handling on the track I do like having a good ride on a normal road. I have sat in a few Camaros though and still don't like the fact I can see crap out of them and I don't care for the interior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bgoins View Post
ZL1 has the Magnetic Ride Control suspension that is not on the 1LE
^^^+1 Actually the ZL1 and 1SS suspensions are very different (See attached)....
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To me, the last gen 10-14 Mustangs have ALWAYS had too skinny tires and too narrow (not enough offset (stance is tires way under the car). These cars also sit too high and the suspension is WAY too soft unless you are just cruising around town getting groceries and starbux. If Ford was going to offer a performance package, track pack, whatever you want to call it, it should have had even wider tires and wheels and much more suspension stiffness. Before the 15' I don't think the track pack even got bigger wheels and tires vs the brembro cars or better shocks but I could be wrong. If it did, it wasn't by much. It seems it still remains, if you want to improve the Mustang, you have to buy new shocks/struts and wider wheels and tires w more offset. I would think they would have covered that this go around after all the talk of staying up w Porsche etc.


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