Motor Trend--15 Camaro 1LE PP vs 15 Mustang GT PP--Randy Pobst - Page 7 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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Well, we'll see how long that 9,000 units per month sold holds, and how the release of the 2016 Camaro affects that number. Nevertheless, when it comes to the 2014 yearly sales number (including this past November sales), Camaro still leads Mustang 79,669 to 73,124.


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burttrans:

I agree with your assessment 100%, but consumers disagree every month snatching up thousands of those Camaros.

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This is what happens when their preferred car was not built for 8 or 9 years.

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post #93 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-02-2015 Thread Starter
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The Camaro has beaten the Mustang in yearly sales since 2009. Yes, the Camaro was out of production for 8 or 9 years, but how many years will it take Mustang to get the crown back.....2, 4, 6, or 8 years. How many years will YOU give Mustang to get the sales crown back. That's like President Obama still blaming Bush for his current low favorability poll number. Good grief Ford, if you want to beat Camaro, manufacture a Mustang that lures buyers to let go of their hard earned money......oh, like 1964 1/2.

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Automobile magazine comparison of Challenger Hellcat, Camaro Z28, Mustang GT.

http://youtu.be/m18YOM0iUZ4
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Automobile magazine comparison of Challenger Hellcat, Camaro Z28, Mustang GT.

http://youtu.be/m18YOM0iUZ4
Nice comparison. I am sure the performance of the Hellcat is because of the "expert" driver. I don't think it would be nearly as good with a "non-race car driver." I doubt the Z28 number would change that dramatically with a "non-race car driver'(But it would change). The good news about the Hellcat is that the shocks are fully adjustable, from the dashboard, and the "street ride" is really nice.
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Shouldn't metaphors be at least in the realm of reality? When has Obama ever blamed Bush for low favorability numbers? That's just you projecting. Maybe you should stick to cars sales predictions?

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todd03blown:

The Camaro has beaten the Mustang in yearly sales since 2009. Yes, the Camaro was out of production for 8 or 9 years, but how many years will it take Mustang to get the crown back.....2, 4, 6, or 8 years. How many years will YOU give Mustang to get the sales crown back. That's like President Obama still blaming Bush for his current low favorability poll number. Good grief Ford, if you want to beat Camaro, manufacture a Mustang that lures buyers to let go of their hard earned money......oh, like 1964 1/2.

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I'm amazed that a GT was that close to the Chevy. Did they ever even show the z28 on a regular road?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1120 View Post
Automobile magazine comparison of Challenger Hellcat, Camaro Z28, Mustang GT.

http://youtu.be/m18YOM0iUZ4

2011 GT | MT82 | 3.73 | Brembos | Barton | Airaid | CDC chin | Corsa X pipe & Xtremes | DSS Aluminum Shaft | BMR Rear loop & LCA relocating brackets | J&M Extreme LCA | Koni Yellows | Steeda Sports | UMI Panhard | SCT & BAMA
"Yo, nutsack! Let me tell you something, man, muscle beats import every time. You know what I'm saying? Every time!" - Dwight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediDave View Post
todd03blown:

The Camaro has beaten the Mustang in yearly sales since 2009. Yes, the Camaro was out of production for 8 or 9 years, but how many years will it take Mustang to get the crown back.....2, 4, 6, or 8 years. How many years will YOU give Mustang to get the sales crown back. That's like President Obama still blaming Bush for his current low favorability poll number. Good grief Ford, if you want to beat Camaro, manufacture a Mustang that lures buyers to let go of their hard earned money......oh, like 1964 1/2.

Jedi Dave
The one potential issue with comparing sales numbers for individual models is that brand loyalty is something that can play a significant role. There are plenty of people who wouldn't buy anything other than a GM, others who would only buy Fords, etc.

If I recall correctly, GM is the top American automaker in the US in terms of sales, which could somewhat explain why the Camaro does better than the Mustang. On the flip side, Ford has been number one in sales here in Canada the past four years (and was leading heading into December this year with GM nowhere near the top), and the Mustang has been by far the best seller of the three (Camaro, Challenger, Mustang) over the past few years. Oddly enough, the Mustang is the only of the three not built here and even that hasn't hurt its sales.

2016 will be the first year in a long time where the Mustang and Camaro will both be newer platforms at the same time, so it will be very interesting to see how that impacts sales figures.

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Only 2 seconds slower but so much better for regular use? Mustang wins!


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Only 2 seconds slower but so much better for regular use? Mustang wins!


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I think that depends on what you call "regular use." The Challenger was 1 second behind the Mustang, and I bought the Challenger SRT 392 because it rides "on normal roads" so much better then my 2013 Mustang GT vert. The CHallenger SRT 392 has fully adjustable shocks and struts, from the dashboard, to give a soft ride with "Street" setting on regular roads - cruising - and very good handling on "Race" setting on track/twisty roads..... And in between on "Sport" setting.
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Just look over this list to get a thorough understanding of how the Mustang is. Pay attention to #21 and #22. And regardless of the tire cheating Chevy seems content to continue doing, the Chevrolet SS is closer to where an actual Camaro 2SS would place.

Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com

Lap times:

Pos | Make / Model | Time | Year | Power (hp) / Weight (kg) | Driven by

1. Nissan GT-R Nismo 1:19.07 '15 599 / 1720 Randy Pobst
2. Nissan GT-R 1:19.55 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
3. Nissan GT-R 1:20.25 '11 530 / 1736 Randy Pobst
4. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:20.43 '11 512 / 1394 Randy Pobst
5. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:21.90 '08 647 / 1530 EdMunds InsideLine
6. Audi R8 V10 plus (2013) 1:21.95 '13 550 / 1570
7. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:22.30 '09 570 / 1485
8. Jaguar XKR-S GT 1:22.53 '13 550 / 0 Randy Pobst
9. Porsche Panamera Turbo 1:22.68 '13 520 / 0
10. Chevrolet Camaro 1LE 1:22.70 '12 432 / 1751 Randy Pobst
11. SRT Viper 1:23.00 '13 649 / 1520
12. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:23.48 '10 558 / 1712 Randy Pobst
13. BMW M4 1:23.73 '14 431 / 1497 randy pobst
14. Lexus RC F 1:23.73 '15 466 / 0 Randy post
15. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:23.87 '08 647 / 1530
16. Lexus RC F 1:24.05 '15 466 / 0 randy pobst
17. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:24.28 '11 512 / 1394
18. Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1:24.29 '15 426 / 1650 Randy Pobst
19. Audi RS7 Sportback 1:24.30 '13 560 / 1895
20. Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1:24.32 '15 426 / 1650 Randy Pobst
21. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:24.55 '14 461 / 1577 EdMunds InsideLine
22. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:24.60 '14 461 / 1577

23. Mercedes CLS 63 AMG S-Model 1:24.70 '13 585 / 1870
24. Aston Martin V12 Vantage S 1:24.85 '13 573 / 1665 Randy Pobst
25. Nissan GT-R 1:25.09 '08 480 / 1740
26. Mercedes SLS AMG GT 1:25.11 '12 591 / 1620
27. Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:25.60 '11 400 / 1415 EdMunds InsideLine
28. Chevrolet SS 1:25.71 '14 421 / 1800 Randy Probst
29. Dodge Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack 1:25.76 '15 492 / 1925 Randy Pobst
30. Ford Mustang GT 5.0 1:25.77 '12 426 / 1641 Randy Pobst
31. Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 1:26.10 '12 443 / 1652
32. Subaru WRX STI 1:26.12 '14 309 / 1545 Randy Pobst
33. Mercedes CLA 45 AMG 1:26.20 '13 360 / 1395 Randy Pobst
34. BMW M235i 1:26.37 '14 326 / 1455 Randy Pobst
35. Jaguar XFR-S 1:26.49 '13 550 / 1987 Randy Pobst
36. Audi R8 4.2 FSI quattro 1:26.92 '06 420 / 1560
37. Porsche Cayman S 1:27.00 '13 325 / 1320
38. Chrysler 300C SRT8 HEMI sedan 1:27.00 '04 431 / 1888 Randy Pobst
39. Porsche Boxster Spyder 1:27.10 '10 320 / 1275
40. Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 1:27.29 '10 436 / 1542
41. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:27.30 '13 659 / 1750 EdMunds InsideLine
42. Subaru WRX 1:27.33 '14 272 / 1503 Randy Pobst
43. Subaru WRX Special Edition 1:27.40 '13 269 / 1452 Randy Pobst
44. BMW M3 1:27.67 '07 420 / 1580
45. Chrysler 300 SRT-8 Mk II 1:27.74 '11 477 / 1994 Randy Probst
46. Ford Mustang GT 5.0 1:27.76 '11 418 / 1648
47. Nissan Z34 370Z 1:27.79 '12 337 / 1524 Martin Choi
48. Ford Mustang EcoBoost 1:27.85 '15 0 / 0 Randy Pobst
49. Tesla Model S (Performance Model) 1:28.00 '12 422 / 2112 Randy Pobst
50. Nissan 370Z 1:28.30 '09 330 / 1583
51. Ford Focus ST 1:28.40 '12 250 / 1432 Randy Pobst
52. VW Golf Mk7 GTi (220 hp-version) 1:28.54 '13 220 / 1351
53. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 V6 GDI 1:28.71 '12 350 / 1580 Randy Pobst
54. Porsche Cayman S 1:28.91 '05 295 / 1406
55. BMW M3 Competition Package 1:29.02 '10 420 / 1617 EdMunds InsideLine
56. Shelby GT500 1:29.04 '06 507 / 1807
57. Ford Mustang V6 1:29.09 '11 309 / 1571 Randy Pobst
58. Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0 TCI 1:29.12 '12 275 / 1550 Randy Pobst
59. Cadillac CTS-V 1:29.20 '05 406 / 1704
60. Porsche 911 Carrera 1:29.25 '04 325 / 1395
61. Ford Focus ST 1:29.27 '12 250 / 1432
62. Lotus Elise SC 1:29.49 '08 220 / 913
63. Mercedes C 63 AMG 1:29.50 '07 457 / 1772
64. Mazda 3 MPS 1:29.51 '09 260 / 1456 Randy Pobst
65. Mercedes E63 AMG 1:29.60 '09 525 / 1765
66. Subaru BRZ 1:30.32 '12 200 / 1220 Randy Pobst
67. Chevrolet Corvette C5 Z06 1:30.35 '03 405 / 1430
68. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:30.35 '02 411 / 1414
69. BMW M5 1:30.40 '05 507 / 1848
70. Porsche 911 Turbo 1:30.69 '06 480 / 1585
71. Ford Mustang V6 1:30.90 '11 309 / 1571
72. Mini Cooper S 1:30.93 '14 192 / 0
73. Scion FR-S 1:31.15 '13 200 / 1251 Randy Pobst
74. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X SE 1:31.40 '11 295 / 1519 Roger Yasukawa
75. VW Golf GTI Mk. VI 1:31.47 '09 211 / 1318 Randy Pobst
76. Ford GT 1:31.57 '04 550 / 1538
77. Mitsubishi Lancer Evo X MR 1:31.60 '08 295 / 1585
78. Tesla Roadster Sport 1:32.10 0 289 / 1238
79. Honda Civic Si Coupe (IX) 1:32.46 '13 204 / 1335
80. Mitsubishi Lancer GSR Evo X 1:32.50 '07 299 / 1626
81. VW Jetta GLI 1:32.53 '11 200 / 1436 Randy Pobst
82. Acura NSX 1:32.59 '04 290 / 1424
83. Acura TL Type S 1:32.88 '07 290 / 1666
84. Nissan NISMO 350Z S-Tune 1:33.87 '04 300 / 1465
85. Subaru Impreza WRX STI 1:34.10 '07 300 / 1527
86. Honda S2000 Type S 1:35.67 '07 242 / 1270 Mike Kang
87. Pontiac Solstice 1:35.69 '05 170 / 1300 Keiichi Tsuchiya
88. Mazda MX-5 2.0 MZR 1:35.91 '05 160 / 1150 Keiichi Tsuchiya
89. Lexus LS 460 1:38.31 '06 381 / 1945
90. Mazda 2 1.5 MZR 1:39.41 '07 103 / 1035 Brandon Bairian
91. Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6 1:40.05 '08 311 / 1798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
I think that depends on what you call "regular use." The Challenger was 1 second behind the Mustang, and I bought the Challenger SRT 392 because it rides "on normal roads" so much better then my 2013 Mustang GT vert. The CHallenger SRT 392 has fully adjustable shocks and struts, from the dashboard, to give a soft ride with "Street" setting on regular roads - cruising - and very good handling on "Race" setting on track/twisty roads..... And in between on "Sport" setting.
I think at the end, they summarized with Camaro on top for the track, Challenger on top for straight-line ("stupid") performance, and for the best blend of the two, Mustang was the "champion."

The Challenger video ride was sweet (the non-track part). The guy was giddy! Even though I'm a too-loyal Mustang guy, Challenger is also the best looking of the 3 IMHO, hands down.

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post #103 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-05-2015 Thread Starter
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KC3333:

I totally agree that the Challenger is the best looking of the three. That Challenger is just dripping "old school" muscle car styling straight from the 60's/70's

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Quote:
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I think at the end, they summarized with Camaro on top for the track, Challenger on top for straight-line ("stupid") performance, and for the best blend of the two, Mustang was the "champion."

The Challenger video ride was sweet (the non-track part). The guy was giddy! Even though I'm a too-loyal Mustang guy, Challenger is also the best looking of the 3 IMHO, hands down.
Interesting data above shows Challenger Scat Pack being faster, on road course, then BOSS 302.....Not too shabby. And that isn't even the Challenger model with the adjustable suspension.....
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com

Lap times:

Pos | Make / Model | Time | Year | Power (hp) / Weight (kg) | Driven by

1. Nissan GT-R Nismo 1:19.07 '15 599 / 1720 Randy Pobst
2. Nissan GT-R 1:19.55 '12 550 / 1736 Randy Pobst
3. Nissan GT-R 1:20.25 '11 530 / 1736 Randy Pobst
4. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:20.43 '11 512 / 1394 Randy Pobst
5. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:21.90 '08 647 / 1530 EdMunds InsideLine
6. Audi R8 V10 plus (2013) 1:21.95 '13 550 / 1570
7. Ferrari 458 Italia 1:22.30 '09 570 / 1485
8. Jaguar XKR-S GT 1:22.53 '13 550 / 0 Randy Pobst
9. Porsche Panamera Turbo 1:22.68 '13 520 / 0
10. Chevrolet Camaro 1LE 1:22.70 '12 432 / 1751 Randy Pobst
11. SRT Viper 1:23.00 '13 649 / 1520
12. Ford Mustang Shelby GT500 1:23.48 '10 558 / 1712 Randy Pobst
13. BMW M4 1:23.73 '14 431 / 1497 randy pobst
14. Lexus RC F 1:23.73 '15 466 / 0 Randy post
15. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:23.87 '08 647 / 1530
16. Lexus RC F 1:24.05 '15 466 / 0 randy pobst
17. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 1:24.28 '11 512 / 1394
18. Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1:24.29 '15 426 / 1650 Randy Pobst
19. Audi RS7 Sportback 1:24.30 '13 560 / 1895
20. Ford Mustang GT Performance Pack 1:24.32 '15 426 / 1650 Randy Pobst
21. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:24.55 '14 461 / 1577 EdMunds InsideLine
22. Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 1:24.60 '14 461 / 1577

23. Mercedes CLS 63 AMG S-Model 1:24.70 '13 585 / 1870
24. Aston Martin V12 Vantage S 1:24.85 '13 573 / 1665 Randy Pobst
25. Nissan GT-R 1:25.09 '08 480 / 1740
26. Mercedes SLS AMG GT 1:25.11 '12 591 / 1620
27. Porsche 911 Carrera S 1:25.60 '11 400 / 1415 EdMunds InsideLine
28. Chevrolet SS 1:25.71 '14 421 / 1800 Randy Probst
29. Dodge Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack 1:25.76 '15 492 / 1925 Randy Pobst
30. Ford Mustang GT 5.0 1:25.77 '12 426 / 1641 Randy Pobst
31. Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS 1:26.10 '12 443 / 1652

2013 Mustang GT Premium Convertible
Candy Apple Red, Auto, FRPP Tune, GT500 Axlebacks, KONI Yellow Sport (adjustable dampers), FRPP Front and Rear swaybars, Custom Removable 4 Point Roll-Bar, BOSS 302 Low Expansion Brake Lines, Roush side splitters, GT500 spoiler, Redline Tuning hood struts,18" Ford Chromed Aluminum Wheels (9R3Z-1K007-A), Michelin Pilot Super Sports - 235X50X18
2011 Mustang V6 Premium Convertible - Gone
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Interesting data above shows Challenger Scat Pack being faster, on road course, then BOSS 302.....Not too shabby. And that isn't even the Challenger model with the adjustable suspension.....
But that wasn't driven on the Streets of Willow by Randy Pobst, he drove it at Laguna Seca instead.


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