Motor Trend--15 Camaro 1LE PP vs 15 Mustang GT PP--Randy Pobst - Page 8 - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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But that wasn't driven on the Streets of Willow by Randy Pobst, he drove it at Laguna Seca instead.
Well help us out. This seems to say that is where the lap was driven???
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com


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Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Well help us out. This seems to say that is where the lap was driven???
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com
Driver variable is what I was pointing out. Most of the cars on the list were driven by Randy Pobst for Motor Trend or TireRack.com.

For comparing cars laptimes, we want as many variables as possible to be the same, which is why I was only comparing times from other cars driven by Randy Pobst.

The driver variable is huge, I doubt many of us could even be within 10-seconds of Randy Pobst times. He was able to record near identical back-to-back 2015 Mustang GT laptimes, so I would say he's able to extract near max potential from every car he tests.


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Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
Driver variable is what I was pointing out. Most of the cars on the list were driven by Randy Pobst for Motor Trend or TireRack.com.

For comparing cars laptimes, we want as many variables as possible to be the same, which is why I was only comparing times from other cars driven by Randy Pobst.

The driver variable is huge, I doubt many of us could even be within 10-seconds of Randy Pobst times. He was able to record near identical back-to-back 2015 Mustang GT laptimes, so I would say he's able to extract near max potential from every car he tests.
Those pesky facts always get in the way! I would wager Randy's Boss time would be up around his '15 GT time. MAYbe north of it, but definitely south of his GT500 time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
Driver variable is what I was pointing out. Most of the cars on the list were driven by Randy Pobst for Motor Trend or TireRack.com.

For comparing cars laptimes, we want as many variables as possible to be the same, which is why I was only comparing times from other cars driven by Randy Pobst.

The driver variable is huge, I doubt many of us could even be within 10-seconds of Randy Pobst times. He was able to record near identical back-to-back 2015 Mustang GT laptimes, so I would say he's able to extract near max potential from every car he tests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
But that wasn't driven on the Streets of Willow by Randy Pobst, he drove it at Laguna Seca instead.
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Originally Posted by Radioguy View Post
Well help us out. This seems to say that is where the lap was driven???
Willow Springs - Streets of Willow lap records - FastestLaps.com
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Originally Posted by KC3333 View Post
Those pesky facts always get in the way! I would wager Randy's Boss time would be up around his '15 GT time. MAYbe north of it, but definitely south of his GT500 time.
Yes, different driver, but the track was same..Not Laguna Seca. It is always nice to have same exact situations, but doubt other driver was "Rookie." Few comparisons are "perfect."

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Yes, different driver, but the track was same..Not Laguna Seca. It is always nice to have same exact situations, but doubt other driver was "Rookie." Few comparisons are "perfect."
So, you really think there is no driver bias even though the GT by Randy came in faster than the Boss by Driver X?

I stand by my previous post.

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For a lot of people, the track (road course) performance isn't important at all - and that is fine. But if it does matter to you, then listening to Pobst gives you a real look at the performance differences - and it isn't just tires. Its the spring stiffness, the damper performance, the ABS performance and probably some tire performance. Pobst understands that getting those "two seconds," takes better overall car balance. Again, to most it doesn't matter. But getting it better isn't as trivial as a different set of tires. And, for most drivers, the difference would be much greater then 2 seconds. The things that Pobst can do - with a poorer handling car - is very different then the amateur track driver. So I suspect the Camaro will make a lot more people feel comfortable driving it hard in the "twisties."
Which brings you right back to questioning either the PP's calibration or its mission. And as soon as you start posting comparative track times, the fact that nobody drives like that on a daily basis becomes irrelevant.

The 1LE was intended as a car for about 2% of Camaro buyers and was able to be calibrated appropriately to that small and extreme of an audience. Truth be told, I think Chevy still left a little low-hanging fruit on the 1LE as released (*cough* , , , 10" wide front wheels . . . *cough*).

The PP is - admittedly this is a guess - a package for more like 30%, maybe 40% of S550 Mustang buyers, and has to be calibrated a little less aggressively than a 2% car. Technically not quite there (1LE) but far less likely to result in buyer regrets and ride quality complaints makes good business sense even though it doesn't fully satisfy the hardcore corner-carvers among us.


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I don't know about you, but driving and living with 285mm rubber on a 10" wheel up front is not enjoyable, and I think Ford always keeps the daily driver in mind.
Maybe 10" wide front wheels really aren't wide enough???

I rode around all last summer and most of the fall on 285/35's mounted on 18x11's at all four corners on my '08 GT and found nothing to complain about once I fabbed up an 0.025" (1/40th inch, that's not a typo) spacer to kill off a tiny bit of rubbing involving only the right front. Good ride, no tramlining, no odd wear, and as far as I'm concerned it could have been the car's OE fitment. They're that good. Actually, they're back on the car, courtesy of a warm window coinciding with one last track day Dec 27th and I haven't gotten around to swapping them off for one of my other tire&wheel sets.


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Which brings you right back to questioning either the PP's calibration or its mission. And as soon as you start posting comparative track times, the fact that nobody drives like that on a daily basis becomes irrelevant.

The 1LE was intended as a car for about 2% of Camaro buyers and was able to be calibrated appropriately to that small and extreme of an audience. Truth be told, I think Chevy still left a little low-hanging fruit on the 1LE as released (*cough* , , , 10" wide front wheels . . . *cough*).

The PP is - admittedly this is a guess - a package for more like 30%, maybe 40% of S550 Mustang buyers, and has to be calibrated a little less aggressively than a 2% car. Technically not quite there (1LE) but far less likely to result in buyer regrets and ride quality complaints makes good business sense even though it doesn't fully satisfy the hardcore corner-carvers among us.


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Excellent point.

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LOL - Dodge Charger Hellcat with it's 707-horsepower driven by Randy Pobst at Streets of Willow only managed a 1:26.87. For the record, that's 2.58 seconds slower around the track than the Mustang.

I know this really is not in line with the comparison for the subject of this thread, but for reference, the Dodge Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack managed to get around faster than the Hellcat with a 1:25.76.

The lesson here is that no one car is equal to another, and horsepower does not solve all problems, though it sure will put a grin on your face.

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LOL - Dodge Charger Hellcat with it's 707-horsepower driven by Randy Pobst at Streets of Willow only managed a 1:26.87. For the record, that's 2.58 seconds slower around the track than the Mustang.

I know this really is not in line with the comparison for the subject of this thread, but for reference, the Dodge Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack managed to get around faster than the Hellcat with a 1:25.76.

The lesson here is that no one car is equal to another, and horsepower does not solve all problems, though it sure will put a grin on your face.
You certainly are right on both counts. The Hellcat is 200 to 300 lbs heavier then the Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack, which is your enemy on a road course track - even though the Hellcat has a "competition" suspension. There isn't much doubt that you will be smiling when you step on the "loud peddle" at a stop light - unless you are thinking about the cost of the rear tires I have the SRT 392 (6.4 Challenger with adjustable suspension, multiple engine/transmission tunes etc.). I suspect it will outperform the R/T on a road course.
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How many times are you going to post those screen shots?
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You certainly are right on both counts. The Hellcat is 200 to 300 lbs heavier then the Challenger R/T 6.4 Scat Pack, which is your enemy on a road course track - even though the Hellcat has a "competition" suspension. There isn't much doubt that you will be smiling when you step on the "loud peddle" at a stop light - unless you are thinking about the cost of the rear tires I have the SRT 392 (6.4 Challenger with adjustable suspension, multiple engine/transmission tunes etc.). I suspect it will outperform the R/T on a road course.
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How many times are you going to post those screen shots?
I use pictures when I think they are helpful in understanding what I am saying in the post.

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I would love to autocross or track against a Challenger. I've seen them on the track. Not pretty

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F91, I just got a mental pop-up from your post:

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