2000 Mustang 3.8L New Eng barely Runs - Ford Mustang Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2011 Thread Starter
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2000 Mustang 3.8L New Eng barely Runs

My 2000 Mustang 3.8L threw a rod a few weeks ago. Got a Ford test engine and swapped it out. Didn't want to run at all at first so I put fuel into the intake via the vac hose and it ran...not well but she fired up. Subsequently, I went and QC'd everything and reseated all connectors. The engine fires up but runs terribly, hardly idles and "chugging". I don't know if they clean the injectors on these test engines or exactly what they do after testing to sell them. I was told that it is a 2000 3.8L with about 500 miles on it ( it is clean as a whistle) and if that is the case, it has been shelved for a decade! I went through the entire engine, new plugs, oil, etc. and transferred ignition coil & other misc parts. This engine is internally balanced and the old engine was externally balanced. I used the flywheel that it came with as the old one has counter balance weight welded to it. I suspect bad/malf/clogged injectors. Maybe the computer is different? Not sure exactly which direction to go in. Any insight would be appreciated. I figured it would be plug n play but it's not. I swapped the crank pos sensor with the old engine, no difference, idle motor swapped, no difference. I've been trying to avoid intake removal & playing with the injectors but may have to. Please, Help......THANKS!

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2011 Thread Starter
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Also, I found out that this engine was manufactured in 09/06, which means it is probably a 2007 model. I see nothing that specifically states it is a 3.8L but it looks identical and matched up perfectly, including the elect. harness. What does this mean with regards to the computer? What do I have to do to get it running properly in the Mustang. the info on the tag on the driver side valve cover is all I have: Manuf: Essex Engine, Windsor. # 530 474 011 and AK530BA

PLEASE, HELP!

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2011
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Some thoughts.

There are differences in cam sensors across the model years and applications. The different types of cam sensors are NOT compatible with each other. In addtion the cam sensor, wiring harness, and PCM must match.

Don't mix/match parts from internally and externally balanced engines.

If injectors are a concern consider an injector cleaning/flow test service such as injectorrx.com.

My $$ is on something basic like ignition wiring. Are you POSITIVE that the correct spark plug wires go to the correct cylinders? Pictures?

Does any body know if Ford changed the firing order during the V6's lifetime?

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2011 Thread Starter
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Thank you WMBURNS! You got most of it right off. I have the outfit I got the engine from researching to see what it is "exactly" mostly because the manuf date is 09/06 and it sure wasn't made for a 2000 Mustang.

Regardless, I decided to go back to basics. I disconnected the battery, removed every single connector on the engine, trans and O2 sensors and reseated them. I reconnected the battery and she started and ran with a very noticable missfire. I got a check engine light and observed that she was dogging it during a test run. Ran enough to drive so I took it to Autozone to get the DTC's checked. I got DTC's P0353 and P0193. P0353 points toward cyl 3 on the all-in-one coil or wire or plug. I just happened to have a spare coil so I swapped it out and also pulled the plug...it is brand new but cleaned it up anyway. No change in running. I plan on replacing the cyl 3 wire tomorrow. P0193 points toward fuel pressure sensor, low fuel pressure, maybe a partially clogged fuel filter or a bad fuel pump. I don't believe the sensor is failed as this engine is in super clean shape and they claim it has less than 500 miles on it as a test engine...I can always swap it with the one from the orig engine to test if I get that far. My experience with fuel pumps has been they either work or they don't so I'll leave that low on my list, too.

My plan is to change the cyl 3 wire and the fuel filter and see where that takes me. Any suggestions, anyone? I have never had a single wire go bad before??? Maybe I got a bad new spark plug??? I bought Motorcraft dbl plats.

How about the fuel issue? The code printout calls for 1-fuel pump. 2-fuel pressure regulator (I do not know where that is at ????) 3-fuel filter (which I think should be #1 cuz it is easier) and 4- fuel rail pressure sensor (on the driver side rail-top??). Is it possible I'm getting a bogus cyl 3 code because she's starving for fuel? Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-28-2011
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OK. I think you have a few things wrong. DTC P0193 does not mean low fuel pressure. It does mean there is a wiring problem to the fuel pressure sensor (low VOLTAGE from the sensor).

Don't ignore this DTC!

Regarding DTC P0503 is directly related to the primary ignition low voltage coil driver. Since this is a V6, one coil driver run two cylinders. Which could certainly explain why it runs like crap. Check for bent/pushed pins to the coil pack.

This is why it;s important to post all of the symptoms and DTC's.

IMO, your problem(s) are wiring related. Either from mixing/matching non compatible wiring harnes.

The P0503 is causing the chronic misfire.

However, it will never run right until the fuel pressure sensor issue is resolved.

>>>
P0193 - Fuel Rail Pressure Sensor Circuit High Input (FRP)
FRP signal shorted to VREF or VPWR.
FRP signal open (gasoline only)
Low fuel pressure (NG only)
Damaged FRP sensor.
Damaged PCM.
High fuel pressure (caused by damaged fuel pressure regulator) NG.

P0351 Through P0360 - Ignition Coil A through J Primary/ Secondary Circuit Malfunction
Open or short in Ignition START/RUN circuit
Open coil driver circuit in harness
Coil driver circuit shorted to ground
Damaged coil
Damaged PCM
Coil driver circuit shorted to PWR

2003 GT Convertible (sold & missed)
2000 GT coupe (Craigslist project. Fixed. Now my DD). Windsor to Romeo swap.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-01-2011 Thread Starter
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Thank You WMBURNS...again! I will check the fuel pressure sensor...This IS the unit with a connector on it on the driver side of the fuel rail, right? If so, I will check the wiring and connector as far as I can. Can you tell me what voltage is expected on what pins (VREF and VPWR+) with ingnition "ON"? Any ideas where it might be shorted...? I am a bit hesitant to swap with the old FRPS until I know the voltage is correct so I don't damage the other one. I'll check it out with my DVM and see what I find.

The coil issue is another thing. I checked the pins when I swapped out the coil Monday. Since the vehicle ran well before the rod issue I gotta figure the PCM and coil (already swapped without change)are OK...although it scares me that both of these DTC's call out the PCM. I will check the coil harness and see what I can find. I'll post again in the am. I really appreciate your help. Clearly, you possess much more knowedge and experience than I do with this. If you think of anything else, let me know. Stay tunes for my post after I check this out. Hopefully, I'll find the culprit and be rolling again. Thank You, WMBURNS!
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-01-2011
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If this is a newer spec engine you'll also need to do something about the intake runner controls after you figure out this problem. In 2001and newer, they used them to aid in low end torque and the 2000 did not have them. THis will cause problems as well since the butterflies will not open and you'll only be running off the short runners.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-01-2011
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b1lk1 i thought it was the opposite, that the butterflies closed the short runners at low rpm so the air flowed through the longer ones for more torque?

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Windstar Upper Intake with cool-air intake, MAC LT headers, BBK O/R H-pipe, and flow 40s, SCT tuner, FRPP Alum. D/S, 3.73 gears, Auburn HP limited slip, and Team Z LCAs, Eibach sway bars.
Best 1/4 time: 15.036 @90.92mph, 2.148 60'
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 03-02-2011 Thread Starter
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Well, I took the advice and didn't ignore the Fuel Rail DTC. I tracked everything down and found nothing. I swapped the FRPS since I had found nothing else and there was no change @ all in running condition! Frustrating. Since I had purchased a fuel filter I figured I'd change it anyway...maybe there was a pressure issue. This made a noticable difference in how the engine ran but there was still a noticable misfire and lack of power. Actually, it wasn't a "misfire" which are sometimes hit-n-miss firing, it was a "no-fire". I could tell that there was a cylinder not firing at all. I tracked down the other DTC (P0353)regarding the coil/cylinder 3 and went through everything wiring related and swapped the plug just for the heck of it. I went through EVERYTHING! Lost and unsure where to go from here, I cleared the previous DTC's and drove it until the CES light came back on then took it to AZ to check it again. The DTC's showed no problem with the fuel Rail now but still showed the P0353 DTC. What the heck? Not knowing what to do now I went into logical troubleshoot mode. I started the engine and began removing plug wires from the coil. When I got to cylinder 6 there was no change in running when I removed the plug wire. I checked everything electrically and found nothing. In fact, I hadn't found an electrical/connector issue at all at this point. I started it again...still running on 5 cylinders and disconnecteed the #6 injector and there was no change. I pulled the upper intake, swapped out the #6 injector and she runs like a dream!!! Obviously, there were several problems. I am not too happy that this "Ford Test Engine" with supposedly only 500 mi or less had multiple issues but I am also a bit confused how a fuel filter that was apparently fine before the engine failed was fine and then not....It was filthy inside and nothing but crap came out of the input side with virtually nothing coming out the output side. I am also confused how the DTC's could be so wrong. The fuel rail DTC took me in the right direction but the Coil DTC was very misleading...? We're back on the road again but with a CES light still on but, now the DTC is ( ) revealing a potential bad O2 sensor...that's a cakewalk compared to where I came from...

Anyone have any input or similar issues with the goofy DTC's?

THANK YOU WMBURNS and others that have helped me out...I appreciate each of you for your help. God Bless
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