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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 1965 K-code convertible that came from the San Jose factory with 4-speeds, a shiny shifter topped with a white cue ball; later find it is a top-loader with Hurst linkage; the tags and codes on the back-case, mid-case, and tag indicate a 1965-1967 toploader (close ratio, tag HEH-BX (I think--working from memory and the BX part--well it's all 1965 correct). Dad says it came from the factory that way and front disk brakes, rally pack, console and GT group--Dad is no mechanic and I remember that car from the day Dad brought it home in May 1965; Dad sure didn't change the transmission--so what happened between the factory and our driveway... leprechauns?--Why is this "Mustang expert guy" telling me it is not a stock mustang because my tranny is wrong? Who made made the top-loader... was it Ford?
Please reply, Coolbrz
 

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Hello. :) Somebody has gotten something turned around. All 65 K codes came a 4-speed manual transmission, and the vast majority of those were the top loaders, which was indeed made by Ford. Some of the K codes didn't have the top loader, but, most did. The earlier 65 Shelby GT-350s came with an aluminum cased Borg/Warner T-10, for example, and, I have no problem believing that Ford would have put a cast iron cased T-10 in a K code if they had run out of top loaders on the assembly line, but, your car almost certainly came with a top loader. Many of the 65 K codes had the VIN stamped on the transmission, but, it would be on the top, in a place that you would have to pull the transmission to see it. :)
 

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Hello. :) Somebody has gotten something turned around. All 65 K codes came a 4-speed manual transmission, and the vast majority of those were the top loaders, which was indeed made by Ford. Some of the K codes didn't have the top loader, but, most did. The earlier 65 Shelby GT-350s came with an aluminum cased Borg/Warner T-10, for example, and, I have no problem believing that Ford would have put a cast iron cased T-10 in a K code if they had run out of top loaders on the assembly line, but, your car almost certainly came with a top loader. Many of the 65 K codes had the VIN stamped on the transmission, but, it would be on the top, in a place that you would have to pull the transmission to see it. :)
Agree !!!!! &...

Up through the 60's & early 70's, vehicles were not ordered as they are today. Yes, if you ordered package "X" it would come with 1, 2, 3.....but, you could also delete specific items within the package. As an example, our mustang (which has been in the family since it was new), when ordered as a GT, my parents really didn't like "trumpet tips" through the rear pan so the dual exhaust was a "delete" (as shown on the original order papers which we still have) and upon delivery, it was off to the muffler shop for a set of pipes.......a very common practice- which because of this it is not impossible, but I will say it is much more "challenging" to not so much verify something is a factory GT by having all of the items listed, but more difficult to verify it is not..and Ford was not the only one doing this either, a very common practice by the Big 3.
Dealers also dealt with quality control issues....and had a pre-approved budget by the mfg's to effect repairs....there are documented stories and pics where mustangs were delivered to the dealers with the trunk lids wrapped and sitting in the back seat....Customers could also pay an additional fee (typically $300) for the dealer to "special prep" the car prior to customer delivery...while each had a different name they called it...basically the dealer had the mech's go through the cars from nose to tail checking every single part, fit & finish...making it right. These cars typically looked, ran like fine tuned machines as a result...you could see, feel the difference.
My neighbor worked for GM in Long Beach, Ca back in the 70's, and clearly recalls special order deletes, hand carried orders to install "X" cylinder head on a particular car- he also recalls there was seldom more than a week went by that the cylinder heads didn't change (as far as port matching/sizing/shape)- as it was all dependent on the supplier and that varied by each shipment….or someone wanted their pickup painted the color that was offered on a particular car…..not a problem as long as it was built at the same plant (for an extra charge of course)- which also explains a few very, very ID pates.

While it is a wonderful thing to have a variety of people who have done such exhaustive research on these and other vehicles, we must also remember that the customer service and deliverables of the time were much, much different than today and paperwork, was, well, not the focus. This has lead to benefit us (especially in Calif) who became exempted from smog testing/cert because of the absence (disposal/non-retention) of documentation of our cars, but in all reality, even if all the paperwork did exist, it wouldn't do little to validate much more than is known today about the cars- because the paperwork was not a priority, delivering what the customer wanted was.

There were also 3 HiPo 289’s….the common 271 hp, 306 hp and only in the GT350R, producing 350 horsepower, weighed 75 fewer pounds, and featured an enlarged fuel tank (34 gallon vs. 18) for racing. With “special heads”, a super-duty suspension, racing tires and more, it was offered in 1965 only
just an FYI
 

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Ford made their own 4-speeds so they didn't have to keep buying the T-10s from Borg Warner. Through 1966 they weren't making their own fast enough so some Mustangs came with a T-10. I have a July '66 GT from San Jose and it has what was one of the last Mustang T-10s.

Per the Ford parts manual the 289 'special', i.e. K-code HiPo, did indeed come with a Ford 4-speed. They were a different number than the ones for a non-special 289 which likely means they had different gear ratios. Ford didn't call them a top-loader just F/4/S - i.e. Ford 4-speed.

For '65 specials the F/4/S was:
Before 8/20/64 HEH-S
8/20 - 12/30/64 HEH-T
from 12/30/64 HEH-BX < Used through '66 - your memory seems to be correct. There should be a date code on yours to match when the car was built.

The non-HiPo ones were HEH-G, P, BR and BT

The Borg-Warner T-10s ( W/4/S for Warner 4-speed ) were HEK's and those are also in the list but it doesn't say one way or the other which 289s might have gotten those. Of course, if it was a 6-cyl then the 4-speed was a Ford-of-England-made Dagenham ( D/4/S ) which were HEJ's.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for this info--you know we have a bill of sale from the dealer with the items Dad paid for to a total of $3901. Then some Pink carbon paper with the payments--He put 2000 down--payments were like 41 a month for 23 months with a final payment of 78... Pretty cool stuff to have... anyway too bad I blew up the engine as a kid...Yeah I can prove it's a GT and a K-code but the engine--well there is nothing left but a block with the Vin Number--the engine in it has about 375 hp/ft pds but I wish it was the original... I guess that's why I got so upset when the guy said "hey, that's not stock" Thanks eveyone
 

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Some great info. Technically, Tremec, the same company making the TKO 5 speeds, made the Ford design 4 speed. Your Hurst competition plus shifter is a much better shifter than stock and if you're not in a hurry, you can find a suitable (correct numbered) engine block for a replacement for your Hipo. Cool story and haters will be haters! lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yeah--me too,Old and in the way (except when I drive)... Yeah sure I'd be interested--I think it would be cool to have the right motor in the car... never going to sell it but when I pass on, and give it to my oldest Son, it would be cool to have the correct power plant in it. So what do I do--or, when do I go?
 

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If it were me and I was looking for the correct date coded block, I would find the build date of the car, then check with the knowledgeable people on here( Few, if any, know more about the early cars than Veronica. Kindly, check with her (PM) on when your block date codes would lie). Know, exactly what you're looking for. Then, start scouring Ebay, Craigslist, swap meets etc. Don't get in a hurry, chances are you'll find one. I found a 4 speed shift boot for my '72 Ranchero that was probably the last NOS one on the planet for around $50, as opposed to the used one at $150. Best of luck. You have a rare car there, take care of it.
 

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Hi again. :) From reading through this again, it sounds like you are saying that you still have the original block. That would be an awfully good thing to have, since they can fix those now in ways that were completely unavailable 'back in the day'. If that block still has the original fuel pump sticking out of the side of it, that would be wonderful. Your car would have come with a Carter 3939S, and, if you do manage to find one of those, which is unlikely, it will cost at least a couple of grand. There is a guy that rebuilds those, though. You just have to have the pump to rebuild. The original carb for that car would be extremely expensive to replace, also. It was 65 K code Mustang specific. Extremely hard to find and, consequently, extremely expensive. If you still have the original motor mount frame brackets, that would also be nice, because they were also 65 K code Mustang specific. The rest of the motor mount assembly can be bought brand new for a very reasonable sum, but, the frame brackets are not being reproduced. If you still have that stuff, you are waaay ahead of the game for a concours restoration. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
You know I've never met a nicer set of people so fast; I just want to say I'm truly touched by your obvious generosity of spirit for my car and myself--Thank you all ever so much... I want to say that Mustang people are my kind of people. I did join the MCA deal in October and a local club near Lake Tahoe, but have not been to any meetings--but I will start getting more involved...
Thanks again,
Jeff "Coolbrz"
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I am going to have to plead youth and stupidity, and then "trying to satisfy everyone" for how I ended up without my original K-code--I broke the crank and cracked the heads when I was Senior in High School--I had a job at a Shell Station and, with the help of my parents got another K-engine (giving up my own engine for the 'core'--hell I didn't even know about numbers matching back then)... Dad did the deal with Ford and I got on the road again. That place where the number is stamped on the next block? It's blank... The long and short of it is I heard a noise down low last Spring (engine had over 300,000 miles... say high five to Synthetic oil with ZDDP and Phosphorus--and a mechanic who would adjust my valves down the street), I knew it was a rod bearing on #8 or 7... and I went to a speed shop to rebuild it again where I told them I have a motor ready to go; they said "--there is no difference... a block is just a block and I have a nice engine from a wrecked 67 GTA all hopped up and, at age 59 and with an understanding that I would not sell the car ( I will give it to my firstborn when I pass on); my wife complaining that the A-code engine is ugly in the garage and seeing a chance to get the space--I left the K-motor and I'm embarrassed to say where. Worst part of it all is I didn't need the money... I mean I am well off enough, and retired... I even considered repainting the car for 12 thousand (three quotes all said about the same because the car is black), but the old paint is not bad when waxed up, no dents, no accidents... anyway I have No K-engine for my 5R08K202583; 76A A D5 26R 71 E 5... well there I said it... I got an original GT without the K-engine. The only saving grace is I love the car; i love to drive the car, my family loves the fact I've cared for the car (well they know I messed up at the end--I told them about the K-thing). I never went to car shows, I didn't even know the car was a rare deal until 10 years ago--and I thought the engine part was "just a block..." Oh well, I am still proud of my Dad's choice, my care of the car keeping it out of the rain and always in a garage--and it sounds too expensive to put another K-engine together. Anyway thanks again
 
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