[Bens65]

Now that the steering linkage issue is sussed, one other thing. The lower crossbar from under the engine is not there. The former owner put on one of the pans with the huge sump so I assume it was in the way. Engine is a 1985. Is this critical enough to ditch the pregnant oilpan and go back to stock so I can replace the bar (didnt come with the car so will have to buy new)?

Cheers Dave

Ok I think this picture illustrates it. You can see the pan clearly. And above the fuel line you can see the bolt hole for the crossbar. To my eye it appears to clear the sump but the rear part of the pan seems to be low. Too low? Thanks Dave

 

[rickyracer1983]

Get a new pan that fits right. You need this bar and have it reenforced. You also need to fix that line, (looks like a fuel line) that is getting crushed by you lower arm. It runs along the frame.

 

[Grimbrand]

Yep, Ben. That is a "holy crap this is bad" thing. Your car needs a crossmember. Right now, most of the stresses from cornering are being placed on your motor mounts and block - and those are designed to flex. Unless you are trying to teach your fenders how to clap, or seeing how much torque a stock block can take, this needs to be fixed, and that pan has to go.

I would get a gusseted crossmember, since you have to buy one, and they're not much more expensive. Instead of just a bent bar, it has a couple metal pieces welded on that add a ton of strength (like the first pic Rickyracer showed).

Some people do crazy things to their cars without thinking about consequences I guess. lol Glad you're getting it sorted!

Edit: I came back and looked at the pic again later. Is it possible the crossmember will clear your pan?

 

[rickyracer1983]

What is that rubber hose running down the side of the oil pan for?

 

[Bens65]

I missed that problem with the fuel line, thanks. The other thing is the clutch cable. Required with the Borgeson.

Is there any reason that a stock oil pan would not fit this engine? It's an 85 out of a Fox but it's been totally rebuilt.

Cheers Dave

 

[Grimbrand]

Fox pan will not fit. It would need to be an 'early' pan with front sump. The Fox was a little different. On these cars, the crossmember and steering stuff are toward the rear of the engine, near the transmission, and the Fox pan interferes with it.

But IMHO get that crossmember first, and see if it fits! You might get lucky! =)

 

[rickyracer1983]

I missed that problem with the fuel line, thanks. The other thing is the clutch cable. Required with the Borgeson.

Is there any reason that a stock oil pan would not fit this engine? It's an 85 out of a Fox but it's been totally rebuilt.

Cheers Dave

Depending on the oil pump style and pan depth you get, that will determine oil pump pickup tube. Just get a stock pan, oilpump and pickup tube. I'd get a stronger then stock OP drive shaft. I have a 2" deeper pan on my engine.

 

[Bens65]

Ok. I will look at the bars currently available and get some measurements to see what might fit. Anyone have any experience with the one sold be opentrackerracing? Is it worth the extra effort of tying into the lower arm pivot? Still looking for one with the gussets like in the photo above.

Cheers Dave

 

[Grimbrand]

Yes, Zray's old design is really good. But I don't see him selling them on Ebay! Maybe the 'rona has got him down, or he's been busy? (his is the one that ties into lower arm pivot) Even if putting the pivot bolt through it doesn't make it any stronger (and it probably does) it's a lot easier to get that nut out later! =)

 

[rickyracer1983]

Ok. I will look at the bars currently available and get some measurements to see what might fit. Anyone have any experience with the one sold be opentrackerracing? Is it worth the extra effort of tying into the lower arm pivot? Still looking for one with the gussets like in the photo above.

Cheers Dave

That is my factory one I had done then powder coated. Old Shelby trick to reenforce the bottom end. Another one to to do on the lower control arms so they don't flex.

 

[Cobrajet67]

That extra deep sump oil pan is completely unnecessary for a street engine and I'm shocked that the other owner even considered removing that critical structural crossmember just to install that behemoth. That rubber fuel hose routing is almost equally unbelievable. Just do as the others recommend and return to a stock or near stock setup. If you want then you can still get a high volume/pressure pump with a pan that fits with the needed crossmember.
The guy obviously didn't have much common sense when it comes to mechanical ability. That owner was the type of guy that shouldn't touch a car EVER. I once had a friend like that who liked to work on cars but had zero common sense and really was unable to fix anything without making the situation worse or dangerous.
Hopefully, you don't find any more unwelcome surprises like these.

 

[rickyracer1983]

My 66 Stang's pan, crossmember.

 

[JustAnotherRuki]

Zray's engine crossmember is excellent and money well spent. I paid a little extra for the one with the jack pad and is the best thing I couldve done. I went through Opentracker racing and about 2 weeks later I had my crossmember.

J

 

[Driveway]

Whatever crossmember you get, be sure to buy the proper bolts for it also. The factory bolts are cone shaped under the head to make sure things don't move around.

 

[Cobrajet67]

Whatever crossmember you get, be sure to buy the proper bolts for it also. The factory bolts are cone shaped under the head to make sure things don't move around.

Aren't these meant specifically for the factory piece? Idk what the factory brace holes look like but from experience I know that usually a tapered fastener will have a tapered hole for it to fit in. Not always though as it depends on what the mechanical engineers had in mind.
I'm just curious here.

 

[rickyracer1983]

Aren't these meant specifically for the factory piece? Idk what the factory brace holes look like but from experience I know that usually a tapered fastener will have a tapered hole for it to fit in. Not always though as it depends on what the mechanical engineers had in mind.
I'm just curious here.

It's mostly to align the bar when assembled. Just as many bolts on a vehicle don't have threads the first little part. Makes for quicker and easier assembling. Just as every nut, bolt and screw have a torque setting from the factory.

 

[Grimbrand]

Without the tapered bit, the crossbar would be able to 'wiggle' just a little, sliding around. It could eventually loosen the bolts from strain and stress (and there's plenty of that put on the crossmember). The tapered bolts resolve all of that. When tight, it cannot move, as there's zero clearance to wiggle, as well as being clamped firmly.

 

[Cobrajet67]

It's mostly to align the bar when assembled. Just as many bolts on a vehicle don't have threads the first little part. Makes for quicker and easier assembling. Just as every nut, bolt and screw have a torque setting from the factory.

I didn't mean the lack of threads on the end I meant the tapered undercut of the bolt head and the crossmember holes in particular. What did mentioning that all fasteners have torque settings have to do with it though?

Without the tapered bit, the crossbar would be able to 'wiggle' just a little, sliding around. It could eventually loosen the bolts from strain and stress (and there's plenty of that put on the crossmember). The tapered bolts resolve all of that. When tight, it cannot move, as there's zero clearance to wiggle, as well as being clamped firmly.

I understood why bolts are usually tapered though I do thank you for clarifying in this specific capacity. I'm just more curious about the holes in the crossmember itself that these bolts go thru.
Fasteners of all types have long been an interest to me. I have an AMK catalog(a physical paper book) because I'm usually so particular about putting things together just right and as designed. It's just that this particular tapered application doesn't ring any bells in any of my past car wrenching memories.
Does the crossmember have an oval hole for the bolt to go thru(for any minor factory variation) or is it perfectly round? Also, does the tapered bolt go thru a tapered hole in the crossmember or is the metal too thin to taper for the bolt head?

 

[Grimbrand]

If I remember right, any taper to the stock crossmember on my car was purely an "after I tightened it up..." affair. The parts were crudely smashed flat and holes were probably put in with the press at the same time, I'm guessing - but it's been at least 30 years since I pulled one.

 

[CA65FB]

Think we’ve established the necessity of the crossmember, but I’ll point out that from experience you may have trouble getting the replacement mounted after it’s been off so long. I had a nightmare of a time getting one back in just from it having been removed for quite some time. And if I recall correctly the underside of those frame rails have captive nuts from inside the frame making the threading even more of a PITA.. also I didn’t see it pointed out, but don’t forget to grab the correct oil pickup for the pan. You can find several aftermarket combos on Summit or Jegs in the stock configuration.. Moroso I liked a lot.