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1966 Mustang 289 4V starts, but won't stay running! NEED HELP PLEASE!!

20679 Views 27 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  ScottSmith
Hi, my apologies if I am going about this wrong. Just signed up!

Here's my car:

1966 Ford Mustang couple. Fully rebuilt 289 with original restored block. Running a 4V holly, fully machined/restored heads, all electric points, edelbrock intake, with new battery, solenoid, coil, etc. I have also installed a manual choke on the 4V.

I just had done the heads, all liquids, replaced spark plugs, and fine tuned everything on the motor about 2 or 3 months ago. (Didn't know if that should would accommodate for anything)

Here's the situation:

I live in California where the weather is cold in the early morning (only lived in California so bare with me all you Mustangers than live is below temps!) and I started the mustang and it started without a problem, like any other time. It usually takes a good 7-10 mins for it to be at its prime temperature. This particular day, I need to move the Mustang from the drive way, so I had started it and put it into gear shortly after and as I cruising out of the driveway, it had died. Thinking that it was just cold and died out on me, I tried to start it back up. No Luck. So, thinking I may just be low on gas, I put in about 3 1/2 gallons of gas into the tank and tried again. No Luck. Which is weird because I have had this happen to me one other time, but the addition of the gas had solved the problem. This time was a no-go. The car will start up, but then not hold its idle and die. I started to think that the fuel pump/filter was defective. I then pull the fuel line from the 4V and there was fuel pumping right out of it. Next, I tried to boost the 4V by putting gas directly into it then trying to start it again. No luck. I then realized that maybe the manual choke is in the wrong position, tried starting the car with the butterfly valve closed....then slightly open...then even more open.. again.. No Luck. I figured since I'm (of course) getting air, the fuel pump/lines/filter are getting the fuel there, and since the car starts for a brief moment, that I'm getting the spark..

I am in desperate need of some guidance, intelligence, or even guesses to help to get this Mustang back up and galloping!
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Are all the vacuum hoses hooked up properly ?
Here's what I would check, pull the coil wire out of the center of the dist cap and place it near metal like the intake manifold, and crank the engine over for several seconds, you should see consistent sparks as would happen as each cylinder fires, it should be able to jump at least a 1/4" easy, then turn the ignition off. If that is good, then take the air breather off, and look down the carb throat and open the throttle, you should see a good squirt of gas in both primary venturies, if it did, then its getting gas. Next choice would be the engine is flooded, push the choke in which should be fully open, press the accelerator to the floor and hold it there, try to start the engine do not pump it, if the engine starts release the accelerator immediately. Post your results. Good luck.
Are all the vacuum hoses hooked up properly ?
Just checked. Yes, It looks all vacuums hoses are properly installed.
Here's what I would check, pull the coil wire out of the center of the dist cap and place it near metal like the intake manifold, and crank the engine over for several seconds, you should see consistent sparks as would happen as each cylinder fires, it should be able to jump at least a 1/4" easy, then turn the ignition off. If that is good, then take the air breather off, and look down the carb throat and open the throttle, you should see a good squirt of gas in both primary venturies, if it did, then its getting gas. Next choice would be the engine is flooded, push the choke in which should be fully open, press the accelerator to the floor and hold it there, try to start the engine do not pump it, if the engine starts release the accelerator immediately. Post your results. Good luck.
Going out to the Mustang now to do the tests. Will check back in with results momentarily.
Here's what I would check, pull the coil wire out of the center of the dist cap and place it near metal like the intake manifold, and crank the engine over for several seconds, you should see consistent sparks as would happen as each cylinder fires, it should be able to jump at least a 1/4" easy, then turn the ignition off. If that is good, then take the air breather off, and look down the carb throat and open the throttle, you should see a good squirt of gas in both primary venturies, if it did, then its getting gas. Next choice would be the engine is flooded, push the choke in which should be fully open, press the accelerator to the floor and hold it there, try to start the engine do not pump it, if the engine starts release the accelerator immediately. Post your results. Good luck.
Results:

The coil wire gave me a spark when I touched it to the intake manifold.

Opened up the butterfly valve by pushing the manual choke in. Held it to the floor and tried, but no luck. Battery starting to go down so I have to charge it.

I've even cleaned the points under the dist cap to try and help..

It wants to start, but just doesnt have that extra "umph" to get it going.

Any other ideas for the fix?
Hello. :) Does this sound like what your car is doing? You turn the key to the start position, it acts like it started, you let the key go to the on position, and the motor dies? If yes, then the problem is one from a very short list. If you have a factory tach, then the tach has probably died on you. They were wired inline on the wire that goes from the ignition switch to the coil. This wire, a resistor wire, is by-passed when the key is in the start position. If no on the factory tach, then either the resistor wire itself has failed, or your ignition switch is bad. :)
Hello. :) Does this sound like what your car is doing? You turn the key to the start position, it acts like it started, you let the key go to the on position, and the motor dies? If yes, then the problem is one from a very short list. If you have a factory tach, then the tach has probably died on you. They were wired inline on the wire that goes from the ignition switch to the coil. This wire, a resistor wire, is by-passed when the key is in the start position. If no on the factory tach, then either the resistor wire itself has failed, or your ignition switch is bad. :)
Man, Veronica, that is great information....never heard of that!
Yep, good info and I'll try and have to file it away in the old memory bank.
Try setting the choke to close the choke flap, ush the accelerator pedal full to the floor, then crank. If it attempts to start, let off the pedal and open the choke. Some combination of that chould do the trick - unless, of course, your carb float is stuck and you are completely flooding the motor. Cleaning up and drying off the plugs will help, also.
Best,
Al
Man, Veronica, that is great information....never heard of that!
Thank you for the information. Would you possibly have a picture of the Factory Tach piece that you speak of? I want to be sure what I am looking for when under the hood.
Try setting the choke to close the choke flap, ush the accelerator pedal full to the floor, then crank. If it attempts to start, let off the pedal and open the choke. Some combination of that chould do the trick - unless, of course, your carb float is stuck and you are completely flooding the motor. Cleaning up and drying off the plugs will help, also.
Best,
Al
Is it possible to see if the float is stuck without taking apart the carb? If so, what are some tests I can do to see if it is stuck?
Dan,
If the carb is a Holley, you can remove the float level inspection screw. If fuel gushes out, the float most probably is stuck. If you have an Edelbrock, it will exhibit a bit of wetness around the accelerator pump shaft as it passes into the carb body. If you have an Autolite, you might notice wetness around the gasket area on the top of the float chamber. Regardless, if you will hit the carb body in the float area a few good licks, you might break the float loose, and all will be good. Of course, you could also look down the throat of the carb as the engine is being cranked to see if large amounts of fuel are flowing into the carb. Probably good to remove the coil wire from the coil so that the motor doesn't backfire into your face. Takes just a little luck.
Best,
Al
Hi again. :) There is no 'piece' per se. How this system works is, when the key is in the start position, that sounds power from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid, going through the neutral safety switch along the way if you have an automatic. The starter solenoid sends power straight from the battery to the starter by the big, thick cables, and sends power to the coil by the brown wire on the 'I' post of the solenoid, with the brown wire splicing into the red wire with the green stripe at the firewall that goes to the + or 'bat' post on the coil. That is so power gets to the coil while the key is in the start position. When the key is moved to the on position power goes to the coil through a different route most of the way. There is a short run of a red wire with a green stripe coming off of the back of the ignition switch which plugs into a fat pink wire with some black sheathing on it. That fat pink wire goes to the firewall connector and, at the connector, turns back into that red/green wire which goes to the + or 'bat' post on the coil. The tach that would have come from the factory 'back in the day' would have had two wires coming out of the back of it for the tach itself and those two wires were connected by unplugging the red/green wire from the fat pink one behind the ignition switch and plugging the two tach wires into the unplugged ends of the red/green and pink wires. This might help. :) The Care and Feeding of Ponies: Mustang Ignition system 1965 and 1966
Thank you for all your information and help, Veronica and Al. I am currently going through the 'trail and error' of figuring out my problem here.

What I did notice as observing under the hood and along the wires, were these wires (pictures attached) that looked to have hit the exhaust manifold and the plastic housing around them looks to be melted. The wires didn't look to be burnt, as you can see, but of course the #1 worry is why this wires weren't connected. Are you able to identify them with your guys' knowledge/experience? ..Thinking this may have a key factor in my issue with the car wanting to start up and stay running?

Attachments

Hello. :) Given the location of those two wires, I have no idea what that is. :nogrinner They look like the two wires that are part of the engine gauge harness that go to the heater blower motor, but, I wouldn't think that those wires would even be able to reach that location, and you would see matching cut wires at the firewall connector. Do they actually go anywhere? :headscratch:
Hello. :) Given the location of those two wires, I have no idea what that is. :nogrinner They look like the two wires that are part of the engine gauge harness that go to the heater blower motor, but, I wouldn't think that those wires would even be able to reach that location, and you would see matching cut wires at the firewall connector. Do they actually go anywhere? :headscratch:
I don't have my heater blower hooked up I believe. That could explain why they aren't connected. They are the wires that connect to the right side of the black piece that has all the other cords coming from it, attached to the firewall.. but I looked around and saw no other evidence of the other half of the connection, or any other wires looking like they connect to it... Also, it just looks like the wires were cut, not burnt so I think Im looking in the wrong direction for my problem thats occuring.


From your previous post, how would I back track or examine the Tach to see if there are any flaws?

I dont believe my ignition switch is bad because i am able to turn the car over, start the car for a split second, and also it is relatively new.


....just curious, if i was starting the car in cold weather and didnt give it time to warm up before putting it into gear, could that have caused any damage or issues? or would it naturally just die from being cold? (Trying to think about the last time it had started up perfectly)
Dan, it may very well be that you flooded the motor while starting and wiped out the plugs. You mentioned that you had a manual choke....I have the same set up and you have to gradually open it until the engine is warm enough, maybe 140 degrees. If not, it will die and keep on dying until it gets warm. I warm it up at fast idle with my foot slightly on the gas, sometimes pumping to keep it going, but be sure your choke isn't closed or you'll flood it out. To clear it, floor the accelerator and keep it floored, do not pump, back off when it starts. I would suggest pulling your plugs and looking at them. Are they black and wet with gas? A new set might fix it.
Dan, it may very well be that you flooded the motor while starting and wiped out the plugs. You mentioned that you had a manual choke....I have the same set up and you have to gradually open it until the engine is warm enough, maybe 140 degrees. If not, it will die and keep on dying until it gets warm. I warm it up at fast idle with my foot slightly on the gas, sometimes pumping to keep it going, but be sure your choke isn't closed or you'll flood it out. To clear it, floor the accelerator and keep it floored, do not pump, back off when it starts. I would suggest pulling your plugs and looking at them. Are they black and wet with gas? A new set might fix it.
After inspection of the spark plugs, I noticed that some of the gaps on some where smaller than others. Also, I didnt see much build-up on the plug itself. It was wasnt black, but it was definitely a dark grey. Im going to try and set the gaps to see if thats where the lack of spark is coming from and go from there...if no...then new set to come...


FYI, first turn of the key today and it started right up!...then died... gotta be the spark... :mad:
Actually Dan, that sounds more like a fuel problem. With your choke held open can you get it to start by pumping and holding at over idle speed, pumping occasionally to keep it running? If so, your problem might be your manual choke and how you use it.

That's how I start my race motors without chokes until they warm up.
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