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So, I recently "inherited" a 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1.. I've never owned a Ford before so I'm lacking on experience. I'm hoping you guys can point me in the right direction. Here's the list of issues and any help you can offer would be much appreciated.
1. There is no fan shroud. I have measured the radiator and it seems to be about 24" of cooling fin surface from left to right, and only about 16" from bottom to top. I need to order a shroud for it-along with a thermal fan clutch, and a mechanical fan. It has the 351C motor-no A/C. Do I just order a shroud for a 24" radiator...or? I'm really confused by how many different fan shrouds there are for this year model. It currently has some type of flex fan with blades that are fiberglass and it HAS TO GO. If you guys can recommend what size shroud, and what is a suitable replacement for the crappy fiberglass bladed trash fan that is on there-I would be very appreciative! I wanted to go electric fan, but that would require an alternator upgrade based on amperage of fan. So, mechanical it is. What fan do you recommend?
2. Someone swapped on an Edelbrock Carburetor along with an adapter plate. The carb is SQUARE bore, and the factory cast iron intake is SPREAD BORE. This is a 4V engine (I think that means it was a factory 4 barrel carb and the heads have HUGE intake ports even though it only makes about 130HP). Since it has a SQUARE bore carb, I thought I might as well go ahead and swap over to an aluminum intake-like an Edelbrock intake-that is also square bore. It would save weight, and hopefully help pull up the dismal power the engine is lacking.
3. The Edelbrock carb seems to be running rich. I was told that these carbs need some type of fuel pressure regulator as they are sensitive to fuel pressure that is higher than about 6 PSI, with 4.5 being optimal. Since the engine is already running rich I wanted to go ahead and add a fuel pressure regulator to get the pressure down to about 4.5-5. This engine has a mechanical pump-factory ford-and from videos I've seen on Youtube the mechanical pumps can run as high as 9 PSI, and bounce all over the place based on RPM. Currently the ouput side of the fuel pump is plumbed straight to the inlet on the carb. So... should I install a FPR?
4. The engine is supposed to be a rebuilt factory 351C with a factory cam. Factory cam meaning it is NOT a performance cam. It is making a LOT of valve train noise. From searching this issue it appears that the rockers are NON ADJUSTABLE and that this engine is KNOWN for being a top end rattle box. After searching "valvetrain noise on 351C" I was shocked by how many people have this problem. The engine in this car has an after market oil pressure gauge that shows it has 65-70 PSI of oil pressure at idle while hot. It has NO SMOKE from the exhaust but the valve train noise is like nothing I have ever heard before in my life from a healthy engine. It is very disconcerting listening to it idle-but it does make enough power to move the car and the engine does not appear to be suffering.. Just a Gawd awful clacking coming from the engine bay at all times. I've asked a few people about it and several people have told me that it is normal for this engine and that I should just pull that engine out and put an LS engine in it. They say it will make more than 3 times the power of the current engine, and will be as quiet as a mouse.. I have no idea what that is all about.. I just would like this engine to be quiet, or quieter than it is now. I'm not opposed to swapping engines if that will fix the crazy tapping sounds coming from under the hood but that sounds expensive. I'd like to make the car safe.. but don't want to put thousands into it just to get to that point.

This car came from the factory with NO power brakes, and NO power steering. How difficult would it be to swap over to power steering and power brakes in the car? Could BOTH of those things be done for under $2000? What if I find parts from donor cars and swap them over-as opposed to buying new? Could I then get it done at a lower price? If I'm going to drive it on the road, I need to feel safe. The car right now... feels quite unreliable, and quite unsafe, at any speed. It is a manual 4 speed car and I fear that leaving my neighborhood could potentially leave me on the side of the road with a hefty tow bill to get it home. The car has been sitting for over 20 years.. but has a new gas tank, new carb, new fuel lines up to the engine bay, rebuilt engine, complete brake fluid flush with brake adjustment at all 4 corners.. It does run and drive but has very little power. It has the "shaker" hood if that matters.. It also has a factory sun roof. Clock on the passenger side of dash, tach in the drivers side, and many other options that people are telling me are desirable. I'm NOT a classic car guy and this is my first classic car, and first Ford car. Go easy on me..Please. I'm just trying to learn and get this thing up to a point where I have some confidence in driving it down the road. Otherwise, if I can't get it to a point where it is safe and reliable, and QUIET.. I may have to consider selling it.
 

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1967 Mercury Cougar XR7
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Happy Thanksgiving, Kawabuggy!

1) The best choice for that radiator is the '69-70 "big block" radiator shroud and 7 blade thermal clutch fan. They won't steal as much power when your engine doesn't need the cooling, but they can really move some air when it does. It's a very straightforward setup. You can find them at West Coast Classic Cougars. Both Cleveland and Windsor (as well as Cougars and Mustangs) used the same setup, so that should not be an issue.

2) AND 3) Your 4V Cleveland engine is very special, and tuning for it is a little different from a traditional Windsor (or even a Chevy!) where the ports are small and high velocity. Yours are BIG. It's almost like the difference between wiring for high voltage/low amps vs. low voltage/high amps. Your big ports are not as velocity dependent, and every part of the system needs to account for that, including carb. Because finding a stock carb for that (and frankly the 4300D sucked anyway) would be hard, I think I would get a spreadbore to square bore adapter if you don't have one already. Then get a good carb with annular boosters. For most 351 engines, I would recommend a 600CFM vac secondary carb, but your Cleveland would probably appreciate a Summit M2008VS 750. That particular engine prefers bigger carbs than most, keeping manifold pressure high (low vacuum). The annular boosters in the Summit carb (which is a descendant of the old 4100 Autolite) will allow your engine to draw fuel from very low flow, and atomize it well - something your Edelbrock carb does not do. It will continue to deliver great performance all the way to redline. It should do well on the street or on the dragstrip. The Summit carbs are inexpensive, but very easy to tune, and not as fuel pressure dependent as your old Carter based Eddy carb.
The Cleveland aftermarket manifold selection is not really very broad, and not necessarily great for your engine. The factory casting isn't too bad, thankfully! Aside from the spacer so you can run a squarebore carb, you wouldn't need to worry much about the rest.

4) Cam noise is BAD. The factory cam was mild, but make no mistake, that was a firebreathing performance engine in its day. 351C 4V is basically a "Boss 351", and one of the meanest engines Ford ever made. The absolutely wild heads do better on the street with a mild cam. You have plenty of breathing even with modest lift at low RPMs, thanks to those giant valves and ports. That carries out to some respectable RPMs, when everything's working right. Any 'genius' that tells you to put in an LS and get rid of that gem needs a swift kick in the pants. The valvetrain is technically nonadjustable, but that's not to say that you can't make it better. If your lifters are clattering, that needs to be addressed. If the rockers are noisy, you may have valve wear or clearance problems that need to be addressed. You can use shims, lash caps, different length pushrods, whatever needs to be done in order to get rid of slack and get your valve geometry right. They're not supposed to be a rattletrap, and they weren't, from the factory.

Converting to an LS is the battlecry of many uneducated heathens. While the LS is a great motor in its own right, the heart and soul of your rare Mustang is its Cleveland engine. Your '69 could not have come with a Cleveland - they weren't available till '70, but even so - that venerable Ford motor is a good thing in your car. Even if you wanted to put in the Chevy engine - and I would say that it's a moronic idea - you would have to get a GM transmission, fabricate motor mounts, new exhaust, new driveshaft - in short, everything. It would not save you money; it'd cost a mint. It would also devalue that car by about $10,000 or more if you ever wanted to sell it.

In factory form, the '70 351C 4V was rated at a rather underrated 300 horsepower, and a very respectable 380 lb-ft of torque. Your heads were absolutely mind-bogglingly good for their day, and actually the only 1960s factory heads that are comparable to modern aftermarket castings.

Your engine doesn't have great power until about 3000 RPMs, at which point, it should really take off like a rocket and pull hard to maybe around 6k RPMs. The 4 speed toploader transmission backing it makes that car a gearhead's dream. The old 4 speed may seem archaic, but it's basically the Clint Eastwood of car transmissions. You can slam it into gear and abuse it, but the transmission will just squint at you, chew on its cigar, and keep kicking asphalt. It will not care. Shift quality on that 4 speed is excellent compared to most other transmissions.

If it was my car (and I rarely say this, but DANG I wish that was my car!), I would pull the valve covers, see if the rockers are loose, figure out what that valve clatter is about, and fix it. If you need to pull the heads and do some work on them, then do it. You don't want valvetrain problems to get worse; that's a potentially easy fix that could become very serious in a hurry if neglected.

Once you fix the valvetrain noise, that car should be a real joy to drive. Not "impressive" if you drive it gently and keep the RPMs down, but it should run well. And if you learn to powershift and let the old girl sing, winding out to some decent RPMs, you will learn why the Cleveland and Mach 1 Mustangs are one of the '60s musclecars that gets spoken about with reverence.

As for the brakes: Power brakes are not a necessity with that car, but getting some good Porterfield pads with higher friction will make a huge difference. Does it have drums on all 4 corners, or discs up front? You might think about converting to discs in the front if it doesn't have them, but with good grabby pads, I think you'll find that the power brakes are a waste of money. You will have plenty of confident stopping power. Talk to Shaun at StreetOrTrack if you need help with recommendations there. He'll match your budget and your wants/needs with good advice.

Lastly, for power steering: It's sure nice for parking lots. The factory stuff is really surprisingly good, when everything works like it ought to. If you want to convert, I'd talk to Dan (Chocostang) and see what he can do for you. EPAS (Electric Power Assist Steering) is also a viable option, but might open a whole other can of worms involving alternator upgrades, which often leads to pulley upgrades, wiring upgrades, and ... well. Yep.

For what it's worth, you have one of my all time favorite make/model/year cars, with all the options I'd really want. I hope you get to drive it, and that old "primitive" hunk of steel becomes a part of your heart and soul; that you love it for all that it is, and for what it's not. It is the pinnacle of an age where style was as important as function; the last of the cars designed more by art than airflow. It has an engine that was designed to win races, and somehow miraculously made it into passenger cars with only a few minor changes. It has a bulletproof gearbox and rear axle that will withstand whatever you throw at it. When you get the valvetrain noise fixed, it will rumble around like a tiger on the prowl, calmly and quietly until you unleash its roar with a stab of the skinny pedal. Wide open, that car will never be quiet, nor should it be. You will hear an eight cylinder symphony, comparable to Tchaikovsky's cannons. All of those things came together in one glorious moment, to produce your car.

It may have problems with different things; you might have to replace belts, hoses, waterpumps - who knows what annoyances you will deal with in that 50+ year old car. But I truly believe that if you make the effort, that car will reward you deeply.

I'm sorry for "waxing eloquent" about your car. But I wanted you to truly understand a gearhead's point of view on why your car is special, and some of the things that make it that way.

It can handle, drive, and accelerate respectably even in an era where many compact cars have 300 horsepower. It should be a lot of fun. =)

If you need more help with "how to make it better", please keep asking questions! There are often simple and easy answers to the issues you will face. Sometimes they won't even cost much. ;)

Best wishes!
 

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I'll throw in my two cents for what it's worth. I've owned, worked on, and have restored early Mustangs and other classics since 67. My SIL and I have done 4 restorations in the past 3 years that include a 65 coupe, 66 coupe, 67 convertible, and a 67 fastback. We have waiting in the wings a 68 Shelby GT350 and a 69 Mach 1 that we own. Yeah I'm an old timer. First thing I would recommend is stay on this forum. It's a treasure trove of good info on every aspect of early Mustangs. Also google early model Mustangs (65-73) and read up on the history and upgrades to these over the years. Next if one is near you join a local Mustang or classic car club. This is the original pony car and although GM and Dodge/Plymouth (and AMC) followed quickly the Mustang will always be the original.

I'll start with power steering. If your 69 came with and still has manual steering I think you're lucky. Borgeson makes a great PS upgrade kit that cost around a grand. It uses the original manual steering links and set up. The power control is in the PS box itself. Read up on it. We've done several Borgeson kits in classic Mustangs and others and they all work great. Fully inspect the entire front suspension. Worn out ball joints, bushings, end links, and plugged or missing zerk fittings definitely need to be replaced. Next power brakes and I highly recommend the front disc upgrade while keeping the rear drums. Quality kits for this will run around 1200-1500.

Keep the 351C and Edelbrock manifold. The Cleveland is a great motor but as the previous poster stated it most likely isn't the original. Almost any good machine shop can rebuild these as good as any LS or MOPAR motor. As a side note I highly recommend staying with a carburetor versus fuel injection (EFI). We've done both and found that carburetors are half the cost of EFI, far easier to install and initially tune, and require a lot less plumbing of the fuel tank and lines. I know there are many on this forum that prefer EFI but this our recommendation.

For instrumentation it's hard to beat Dakota Digital. Runs about 900. The hardest part of this installation is the squirrel's nest of original wring under the dash and sorting through that. Done over a half dozen of these to classic Mustangs, Camaros, C-10, Apache, and F-100/150 pickups, and a few others.

Best of luck on getting you're Mach 1 on the road.
 

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2014 GT, 1967 Fairlane GTA
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I agree that a clutch fan would be best.

It also has a factory sun roof.
There technically was no such thing in a Mustang in 1969. On the options list and on the assembly line 1969 Mustangs didn't ever come with it. It could just be that someone had your sunroof put in when the car was relatively new so it looks period correct. However, ASC(American Sunroof Corporation) was the company that did the optional Cougar sunroofs and a couple of 1969 Mustangs did apparently get sent off to ASC to have the metal sunroofs installed before being delivered.
Muscle Car Of The Week Video #9: 1969 Mustang Mach 1 Factory Sunroof (v8speedshop.com)
Someone swapped on an Edelbrock Carburetor along with an adapter plate. The carb is SQUARE bore, and the factory cast iron intake is SPREAD BORE. This is a 4V engine (I think that means it was a factory 4 barrel carb and the heads have HUGE intake ports even though it only makes about 130HP). Since it has a SQUARE bore carb, I thought I might as well go ahead and swap over to an aluminum intake-like an Edelbrock intake-that is also square bore. It would save weight, and hopefully help pull up the dismal power the engine is lacking.
Idk where you got that 130hp figure but that's way low. Edelbrock carbs are just rebranded Carter carbs and I've never been a fan of them. They're not known for being great. An Autolite or Holley are better choices imo.
The Edelbrock carb seems to be running rich. I was told that these carbs need some type of fuel pressure regulator as they are sensitive to fuel pressure that is higher than about 6 PSI, with 4.5 being optimal. Since the engine is already running rich I wanted to go ahead and add a fuel pressure regulator to get the pressure down to about 4.5-5. This engine has a mechanical pump-factory ford-and from videos I've seen on Youtube the mechanical pumps can run as high as 9 PSI, and bounce all over the place based on RPM. Currently the ouput side of the fuel pump is plumbed straight to the inlet on the carb. So... should I install a FPR?
You shouldn't normally need a FPR with a carb and mechanical pump. If it's running rich you might have too big of a carb on the engine or it's misadjusted. If it's too much carb then it'll also make it run poorly and you'll lack power. Just buy a better carb.
I've asked a few people about it and several people have told me that it is normal for this engine and that I should just pull that engine out and put an LS engine in it. They say it will make more than 3 times the power of the current engine, and will be as quiet as a mouse.. I have no idea what that is all about..
People watch too much tv lol. No self respecting Mustang owner would do that. An LS swap isn't cheap to do either nor is it really all that easy. Engine mounts, transmission, driveshaft, exhaust, plumbing, wiring, etc all have to be custom installed with cutting and welding modifications to the car as well. All that takes a fair amount of labor, time, and $. That was terrible advice from those people.
If an engine swap was being considered then swapping the engine for any other Ford engine would be much easier and cheaper.
I'd like to make the car safe.. but don't want to put thousands into it just to get to that point.
Owning and restoring/fixing/upgrading a vintage car isn't going to be cheap so be prepared to spend thousands of $ especially if it needs maintenance/parts which most older and modified cars do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for all of the information guys. I have been doing a little research on the engine and I'm being told that it is an "M" code car-the M appears in the VIN, and also it has a 63C on the door tag and that this is a 351 Cleveland car originally. Grimbrand up above thinks it cannot be original and he may be correct, but I sent a picture of the door tag and VIN to another guy that owns Mustangs, and restores them as a business. He is telling me that it is an original 351 Cleveland car. I've started going over the mechanicals to make it safe. The radiator appears to be original so I pulled it and sent it to be cleaned, pressure tested, rodded, and painted. I've ordered a new fan shroud and thermal fan clutch, but I still need to order the actual fan itself. I'm waiting on the shroud to be delivered so that I can measure the opening with a tape measure so that I can then order the correct fan blade.
The car is way underpowered. There is no doubt a Honda Civic would absolutely mop the floor with this car in a race. I guess I will just make it pretty and drive it slowly as it ain't fast. I also picked up a Holley 1850-3 vacuum secondary carb, and an over-haul kit to replace the Edel-BROKE. I actually bought TWO holleys from the same guy. Said he was running them on his dual quad boat and pulled them to replace them with different carbs. Regardless, I plan on tearing one down and completely going through it and cleaning it and installing all new gaskets, power valve, pump diaphragm, all of the wear items, and then putting it on the car just to see if it makes it run better.

If I buy adjustable rocker arms from the aftermarket, will I need to install screw in studs, or guide plates? My thoughts are to quiet down the valve train noise I will buy adjustable rocker arms and then adjust all valves from there. If anyone has any other ideas as to how to quiet down the top end racket-I'd love to hear them.

Idk where you got that 130hp figure but that's way low.
I got that 130HP figure from driving it.. Seriously.. I can't remember being in a SLOWER car in my lifetime. I might be optimistic with that figure.. It might actually be LOWER than that.. It might have a bad camshaft, or some other major engine mechanical problem. That is yet to be seen. After the Holley install, if it does not run better, I will need to plan on tearing into the top of the motor to figure out where the Horsepower cork is and remove it.
You shouldn't normally need a FPR with a carb and mechanical pump.
Just for peace of mind, I'm going to install an FPR with gauge along with the Holley.
Again, thanks everyone for all of the information. I will post back when have more updates. As the poster above states, next I'm going through all of the front suspension and steering components and will upgrade/replace anything that is showing any wear. I'm gonna do it little by little, and keep the car together in one piece.
 

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2014 GT, 1967 Fairlane GTA
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Thanks for all of the information guys. I have been doing a little research on the engine and I'm being told that it is an "M" code car-the M appears in the VIN, and also it has a 63C on the door tag and that this is a 351 Cleveland car originally. Grimbrand up above thinks it cannot be original and he may be correct, but I sent a picture of the door tag and VIN to another guy that owns Mustangs, and restores them as a business. He is telling me that it is an original 351 Cleveland car. I've started going over the mechanicals to make it safe. The radiator appears to be original so I pulled it and sent it to be cleaned, pressure tested, rodded, and painted. I've ordered a new fan shroud and thermal fan clutch, but I still need to order the actual fan itself. I'm waiting on the shroud to be delivered so that I can measure the opening with a tape measure so that I can then order the correct fan blade.
The car is way underpowered. There is no doubt a Honda Civic would absolutely mop the floor with this car in a race. I guess I will just make it pretty and drive it slowly as it ain't fast. I also picked up a Holley 1850-3 vacuum secondary carb, and an over-haul kit to replace the Edel-BROKE. I actually bought TWO holleys from the same guy. Said he was running them on his dual quad boat and pulled them to replace them with different carbs. Regardless, I plan on tearing one down and completely going through it and cleaning it and installing all new gaskets, power valve, pump diaphragm, all of the wear items, and then putting it on the car just to see if it makes it run better.

If I buy adjustable rocker arms from the aftermarket, will I need to install screw in studs, or guide plates? My thoughts are to quiet down the valve train noise I will buy adjustable rocker arms and then adjust all valves from there. If anyone has any other ideas as to how to quiet down the top end racket-I'd love to hear them.

I got that 130HP figure from driving it.. Seriously.. I can't remember being in a SLOWER car in my lifetime. I might be optimistic with that figure.. It might actually be LOWER than that.. It might have a bad camshaft, or some other major engine mechanical problem. That is yet to be seen. After the Holley install, if it does not run better, I will need to plan on tearing into the top of the motor to figure out where the Horsepower cork is and remove it.
Just for peace of mind, I'm going to install an FPR with gauge along with the Holley.
Again, thanks everyone for all of the information. I will post back when have more updates. As the poster above states, next I'm going through all of the front suspension and steering components and will upgrade/replace anything that is showing any wear. I'm gonna do it little by little, and keep the car together in one piece.
Yes, by all means please take a pic of the engine compartment.
Grimbrand is correct. The 351W, a completely different engine family, was what was available in 1969 and not the Cleveland. For 1970 Ford switched to the 351C and though a few 351W were put in 1970 cars no 351C were put in 1969 cars. Kevin Marti says as much(with the paperwork to back it up) and he is probably the most knowledgeable person there is when it comes to Mustang options: Sorting out the Mustang’s 351 Cleveland engines - Hagerty Media
If you have a 351C in the car then it's not original and someone removed the 351W and put in the 351C. The H and M code were not exclusive to the Cleveland, at least not at first, as they were used for the Windsor in 1969.
351 Cleveland in 69 Mustang | Vintage Mustang Forums (vintage-mustang.com)
Also, most Honda Civics will beat any older muscle car that is stock or even mildly modified. By modern standards these vintage cars aren't fast and many current 4 cylinder grocery getters will beat classic cars easily even if they have automatics which shift faster than manuals. Just look up 0-60 and 1/4 mile times to compare new and old cars. Having said that the car should still be impressively quick.
Maybe take the heads off and have them rebuilt. If they have the original valve seats that are not hardened and have been worn then that might explain some of the low power along with a bad carb.
I agree with having the radiator restored. That's an excellent decision and what I would also have done.
The Holley 1850 is a good choice. I would have looked for a 650cfm instead of a 600 but that'll be just fine too. Ford used small Holley carbs on large engines and vice versa on many performance model Mustangs of this era. It'll largely depend on where your engine makes its power and most are at the lower to mid end of the RPM range so a conservative sized carb will be good.
 

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1967 Mercury Cougar XR7
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On a 4V Cleveland, the Holley will work. However, you will be throwing away a good 30-40 horsepower (possibly more) down low, due to the low flow and characteristics of that engine. Your throttle response and economy will also suffer. The cheap Holleys do not atomize nor draw fuel well at low flow. On a Windsor, as @Cobrajet67 says, it would make more sense.

If you are at low to midrange with that car, it's a real slouch. Driving gently, you'd certainly wonder what all the fuss was about. But if it's running right, it would begin to wake up about 3k, and be a LOT of fun.

Given that your car is an "M" code though - it would have been a 351W 4V. Not a Cleveland. Easy way to tell is that the water hose on a Windsor attaches to the intake manifold at an angle, while the Cleveland's upper radiator hose connects directly to the block, and points straight up before curving toward the front.

Making the valvetrain adjustable will require machine work on the heads. It is likely that if things are sloppy and loose, you have problems with cam and lifters. I would be reluctant to hammer on this (or even start it) until you know you're not eating cam lobes/lifters and circulating metal through the oil.
 
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